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ORAL HISTORIES oF
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POLITICAL PRISONERS m

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“Post-Prison Activism &
Archiving Resistance”

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Originaly hosted us aliv conversation by Firestorm Books,
recording avaiable on Firetormn' youtube channek
W youtube.com/watch?y=-cegIaLeYsE.

Octaber 13,2034

Publshed by AK Pross, Ratding the Cages: Oral Histories of North American
PoiticalPisoners s project of abolitionists Josh Davidson and Eric King, The
ook illd with the expericnce and wiadom ofover hirt current and former
North Amrican pliical prisoners. It provides first-hand detal of prison e and
the poliiea commitments tha continue o lesd prisoners into direet confrontation
with state authorites and insitutons.

“The orginal pamphiet from the U, Prisoner, Labor and Acadermie Solidrity
Delogation to Palestine March 2410 April 2, 2016 can be found a:
whwireedomarchives org/Pal /PP Bookler AR Eng Wob.paf

Anxter pamphlet from the delegation tked “For the Love of aletine Stoics of
Women, Imprisonment and Resistance," dited by Diana Block and Anna Henty,
can be found here: e vedomarchives.org/Pal womenprisoners pf

Sheikih Khader Adnan, “Khader Adnan expressessolidarity with 50,000 hunger
strikersin California prisons,” lectronintifds.ne blogs/nors-barrows-
riedman/Khader-adnan-expresses-solidarty-80000-hunger-strikers.cliornia

Transcription, editng, and formatting by ev, Danielle,Josh & Jeremy with help
from Firestorm Bock.

allsbor votunteered

with whatever weapons a hand

Eric King s a father, poet, author, and activist. In December 2023 he was,
released from the supermax ADX prison after spending nearly ten years as
a political prisoner for an act of protest over the police murder of Michael
Brown in Ferguson, Missouri. He was held in solitary confinement for
vears and was met with violence by guards throughout his incarceration.
Eric has published three zines: Battle Tested (2015), Antifa in Prison (2019),
and Pacing in My Cell (2019). His sentencing statement is included in the
book Defiance: Anarchist Statements Before Judge and Jury (2019). Eric
‘now works as a paralegal for the Bread and Roses Legal Center.

Claude Marks was imprisoned for his involvement in an escape
conspiracy to free Puerto Rican independentista and political prisoner
Osear Lépez Rivera. Claude has worked in radical media since the late:
19608 and is co-founder and co-director of the Freedom Archives. In 2016,
Claude traveled to Palestine as part of an anti-prison delegation that
focused on political impri ity between prisoners in the
US and Palestinian. He has also worked to free numerous political
prisoners and continues to fight for prison abolition.

onment and s

Jake Conroy s a longtime animal rights activst who was sentenced to
four years in prison for his involvement in the Stop Huntingdon Animal
Cruelty (SHAC USA) campaign. Jake has been involved in various forms of
activism since the mid-1990s, working on campaigns both local and
international. The SHAC 7, as he and his codefendants became known,
were tried as domestic terrorists for running a website and suppo
controversial tactics and ideologies. Since his relcase, he has remained
tirelessly committed to the struggle on many fronts. H is currently the
host of the Three Minute Thursdays show on his Cranky Vegan YouTube
channel and is cohost of Radicals and Revolutionaries, an oral history
podeast about diree action movements. ake also contributed to the baok
Rattling the Cages: Oral Histories of North American Political Prisoners.

ationg the cages f
Libertie Valance: Welcome to everybody. Thanks so much for being here
tonight, or this afternoon, 1 guess, depending on where you are. My name
is Libertie, and P'm a member of the Firestorm Collective. We're excited to
host former political prisoners Eric King, Jake Conroy, and Claude Marks
to discuss staying active in liberation struggles after release and also the
importance of archiving our histories of resistance. This is part of  series
that we've been doing with our friends at AK Press and Eric and Josh, the
editors of Rattling the Cages.

Firestorm is a 16-year-old radical bookstore owned and operated by a
queer feminist collective in southern Appalachia on the land of the
Cherokee people. We strive to feature books and events that reflect the
interests and the needs of marginalized communities in the South. We're
also continuing to do book events virtually, some of them anyway,
because we love to be able to conneet with people at a distance and we.
know that for a lot of folks in our community the accessib
programming s still highly desirable. Our schedule’s a little up in the air
right now because of flooding, but if you're interested in keeping up with
our future events follow s on social media.

ofonline

Just a note: this s a little unconventional here. Lam in Asheville, North
Carolina—that's where Firestorm is located—and we have had truly
devastating flooding in the last two weeks that's resulted in some pretty
challenging conditions. So 'm here in an apartment instead of in a
bookstare. I'm trying to find good internet, and it's possible that my.
internet might drop at some point, in which case Josh will step in. But
Asheville continues to not have any running water, and I think about a
third of our community is actually stll without electricity. So it's a wild
time, and there’s a whole conversation there about climate change and
inequity for another time.

We're so incredibly pleased to have all three of y'all with us tonight.
‘Thanks for making the time! 'm going to pass it off to Erie who's going to
run the show here. Thanks, y'all

Eric King: Thank you, thank you, thank you. Claude, Jake—thank you both
50 much for joining me.  consider you both good friends and comrades, so
thisisa real joy for me to have you—at least you, Claude. [Laughter al
around.] What 'd like to start with i that both of you were, in my view, a
part of mass movements, whether i’ ant-imperialst, anti-government,

A et s
anti-animal cruelty, so this is a two-part question. I'd like to know, when
you were free, and you saw the repression coming down from the state on
others—you saw them arresting people, giving sentences—did that have,

any impact on how you viewed your movement or your own participation

within it?

Claude Marks: First of all, thanks for having me. As you know, it took alot
of arm.twisting to get me to agree. I think, Jake, you probably were the

linchpin of the whole thing. In any case, at the core of your question s
really trying to understand the context in which we organize and the
reasons why we organize. If we're not happy with the way the state, the
corporations, the ruling class, are handling things, then we have a
responsibility to take that on and try to change it. The nature of the state
teaches us, if we study it—which I think is an important thing—it teaches
us that, in essence—because, especially here in the US, we're dealing with
astate that has a history of being settler-colonial —the state arrives at
power through brutality and violence, stealing land, and genocide,
enslaving peaple.

If you come to power by those means, you're also going to hold on to
power by those means. So to me that's a fundamental thing about how we
see ourselves in relationship to whatever aspect of struggle that we're
engaging in, because if we're challenging their power we can’t be shocked
by repression. Repression is the essence of how they come to power and.
how they maintain it. An inherent part of disagreeing with the state and
its values, and fighting for something more just and equitable ina
different kind of world, means taking that on in whatever capacity one
decides to do it. But we shouldn't be shocked if they aren’t playing by the
rules. They re making the rules in order to maintain power.

Because in the absence of the rules, and in the absence of compliance to
the rules, what else is there but the military, the police, all the various

agencies of the state that are about reinforcing those power relations. So
demonstrating is one thing, but it's in that context that it takes place.

Because part of the theme of our getting together and chatting has to do.
with st

ing with it in the long run, I mean, this struggle to change the
nature of certainly US imperialism—and the US is probably the most
violent empire, historically, that's ever existed. I mean, look at how
they're supplying the arms for the Zionist genocide today, for example,
‘They're not playing, by any moral standard, a fair game here. This is not a

ationg the cages s
democratic process in which you get to choose the kind of values that you.
live under. That's not what we're dealing with.

We're dealing with parties that are in control that essentially agree on
‘maintaining empire through violence. Here, we are realizing that it's
going to take more than one or two generations to really change that. So.
it's not just about individual decisions, it’s about sticking with it. I
about a building a movement that has longevity, understands the nature
ofthe state, and builds a capacity ltimately in the long run to change the
power relations. And that doesn’t mean that they’re going to change their
minds and give it up because of something that happens in an electoral
thing Because they're not.

‘Eric King: Alright, thank you. Jake?

Jake Conroy: irst off T want to give a big shout out to Firestorm. As was
mentioned, 1 was down there. I's such an incredible place, and I was
seally inspired by the community and all the work that's going on there.
“Then to sce that whole area just get devastated was obviously very
difficult to watch from afar, and I can only imagine it’s even warse being
there. But sceing Firestorm's response, such an amazing example of
mutual aid, has been really inspiring to me to watch from afar. If there's
any way that myself or the rest of us can help, I hope that’s passed on. It's
also amazing to be here with Eric and Claude, two people I really admire.

Thanks so much. I've already forgotten what the question is. Repeat it one.
more time.

‘Eric King: To run it short, when you were free and you saw the
government repression coming down, did that impact how you viewed
your movement or your role within it?

Jake Conroy: Yeah. When 1 first got involved in activismin the mid ‘905,
predominantly was really involved in the animal rights movement, but it
wasn't really animal rights literature that I was given. It was history of
other movements, and it was the importance of security culture, and it
was this stuff that the government and corporations have done to stop
social change in the past, and is currently doing, and could be doing in the
future. I don't feellike that's done probably as much as it was back in my
day, and perhaps in Claude's day. It fecls like that is just kind of these

6t thecages
weird conspiratorial things, like that would never happen to me. But T
think the reality is, as Claude has said, it is a state that is not intereste
losing, and they are going to not just not fight fairly, they're going to
irty, and they're going to fight in really nasty, nasty ways.

S0, think, as an activist, 1 kind of learned early on to expect that kind of
repression and oppression, and to prepare for it to think about it, and
understand that that could come my way. As time went on I saw it more.
and more. T can remember, 1 think I got involved in activism in 1995, and I
know that the first time that the government or private investigators or
corporate interests were following me or monitoring me and/or my
friends was 1996. So it was less than a year, and that went as long as 2015.

What's happened since then, I don' really know. But there was always
from the very beginning an understanding that they are out to stop you.
And 1 think to a certai itely makes you look at
organizing differently, it makes you think about community differently in
positive ways and negative ways. Specifically, when we were doing the
Stop Huntington Animal Cruelty Campaign, the federal government said
that we were the biggest threat to the security of the United States, which
was pretty laughable. But they were very nervous and upset and angered
by what we were doing and how much we were able to affect capitalism,
how much we were able to get the largest corporations in the world to do
what we wanted them to do as a small radical grassroots organization or
‘movement, and we knew that would come with a price.

extent that d

Ithink over the course of the five years that we did that campaign we
were sued 24 different times. 23 or 24 different times we had federal civil
RICO suits brought against all of us for $12 million a piece, and we
‘managed to beat all of those. We managed to navigate our way around
those, and I think that put a bit of machismo into the US campaign, where
we felt like, “Oh, we can't be stopped.” It was kind of like a pounding of
the chests. So, when we got the bigger case—the terrorism case—we just
thought, “Ab, i’s just another one that we'll get around. 11l be
didn’t work out that way, and we were all found guily.

We were the first animal rights group to get hit with terrorism charges.
‘The first organization. There were people that were charged with that
particular crime in the past, but we were the first aboveground
organization that was targeted with that specific law. We can talk a little

ationg the cages 7
bit more about that i

e want. T'm happy to do that. T do think that itis a
good reminder that we won 23 o 24 cases, but it was that 25th one that got
us. T think that idea of, “Oh, they can’t touch us, we're unstoppable” type
ofthing s a problem, and I think sometimes you can see that kind of
‘mentality seep into our activist spaces, where we're untouchable, or
they're not going to be able to do anything. But they are always there.
‘They're always coming after you. They're always coming for you to stop
you. It doesn’t mean that you can’t get around that and beat that, but it
means that they will not stop until they get what they want. 'd always
thought about it in my organizing, but it wasn't until we got kind of
arrogant about it that it caught up with us in a big way.

‘Eric King: Thank you both. The follow-up question to that is, because this
s a prison community support centered talk mostly, I'd like to know if
when you did get put down, both of you, how was the support from your
respective communities? Did your animal rights community or anti-
imperialist or anti-whatever—did your communities show up for you in
ways that you felt loved and safe, as much as you can be, and seen? Or did
you feel left behind when you went inside?

Claude Marks: Well, 1 mean, I consider myself to be pretty fortunate in the
sense that I had a large community, even though I had been absent from it
as an organizer for many years because of choosing to be part of
clandestine work. But nevertheless, the politics of our case, the work and
solidarity with Black liberation and Puerto Rican independence, things of
that nature, there was a pretty vibrant movement all along, For myself
personally, I was certainly prepared for imprisonment in the sense of

ing a choice to do a non-collaborative surrender after many years,
mainly because we all wanted to get back to doing public organizing work
and were isolated in clandestinity and not being very impactful.So, part of
the choice was, “Yeah we're going to take a hit.” In making that decision,
people were there and stepped up, not just around myself, but certainly
my family and my greater collective, which was all being supportive. In
my case, a partner and kids. I think the main thing about prison for me
was not whether or not I stayed connected, but is was trying to figure out
how to doa level of conseiousness-building inside, dealing
being productive both within the prisoner community, but also staying
conneeted to struggles that were happening at the same time outside the
s,

5 et s
Eric King: I talked to James Kilgore a couple weeks ago, and he said that
being underground he was able to function, because, at that time, he was
able to get fake ID's and everything, and it wasn't as hard to still have a
functioning ife underground. My question to him was did being
underground feel like its own prison? Would you care to expand on that at
all real quick?

Claude Marks: The real question, in my case, is a question about why
would someone choose to be part ofa landestine struggle, to be partof
trying to build an infrastructure that can functi e the purview of
the state. Why is that a defensible, viable, political choice? Not to say that
we succeeded at doing that in some tremendous way, but if you think
about it—and this harkens back to what I was trying to say about the
nature of the state—a successful movement has to function on many
levels. Certainly on a mass level, without a doubt.

But certain kinds of work have to function outside that purview of the
state by people who aren't identifiable. And in making a choice like that,
you're making a choice to be part of a political, and at times a military,
functional structure. In deciding to be part of something like that, in the
‘most ideal sense, people are aware of the dangers and the risks to life that
are implicit in that. T mean, the state is functioning against mass
‘movements with death squads. We know that, They attacked and
executed members of the Black Panther Party. They attacked and
executed members of the American Indian Movement. They attacked and
executed members of the Chicano- American struggle. They did the same
with the Puerto Ricans. Any type of movement that challenges the nature
of the state and that tries to exert liberatory politics is going to be
thumped. And speaking of thumping, this is Fleet Week in San Francisco,
and just heard the first strafing of San Francisco by a military jet, called a
Blue Angel So, if that happens again you'll know what's happening.

Really, the question isn't how comfortable s it doing clandestine work, it’s
is that really a viable choice to be made, and how does that fit into one’s
vision of developing a more impactful revolutionary struggle? What is
that about? I'm not saying everybody should do that, or this is the time to
do that, or anything like that. But at the time that we made that decision,
others had already done that, and others were projecting a rebuilding of a
capacity to function in a clandestine way. So, with all the risks that are
implied, that’s part of what you decide to do if you make that choice for

ationg the cages s
yourselfor as part ofa collective process.

‘Eric King: Okay, thank you. Jake, the Animal Rights and Earth Liberation
Movements are in my mind known as being some of the best supported,
that the people that support your work show up in a very big, tangible
way when those folks are inside. When you went down was that your
experience? Did you feel seen and supported while you were inside?

Jake Conroy: Yeah, for sure. It was ineredibl.  had done political prisoner
support before that for years, encouraging people to write letters and do
fundraisers and stufflike that. But T had never been on the receiving end
ofit. 1 remember like day two that I was in prison, and 'm like, “Where are
all the letters? What's going on?” Then I remember the first leter L got, on
like day four, and I remember who it was from. 1t was from a friend of
mine named Lance, and he wrote me a letter, and I was like, “Oh, this is
amazing” Then, I think by the end of that week 1 was getting 30, 40, 50
letters a day. Yeah, it didn't keep up like that, ut that was my experience,
and it was incredible. 1 never experienced anything ke that before.

I think that support is instrumental in surviving, not just figuratively, but
literally. It wasn't just getting letters. People sent me books. People
donated money so that I could have money on my books to buy things at
commissary if I needed them. People, if they could, which was pretty rare,
were able to visit. Also, a really important type of support that I got, which
we often don’t think about,is after 1 got out and got put into a halfway

house.
‘Eric King: We're going o get to that.

Jake Conroy: Well,nevermind then. But the amazing thing was, as an
animal rights activist, 1 hoped and saw a lot of support from fellow a
rights activists all over the world, and environmental activists. But there
also was, like the Jericho Movement listed us with their political
prisoners, and beyond just being incredibly grateful for that, T was very
honored to see people that I had respected and looked up to and read
about since my carly days of being an activist. Now, being listed alongside
them fel very special, and it felt like I was seen in a much bigger way. It
felt like there was a little bit ofa feeling of solidarity that 1 hadn't really
felt before and that felt really, really special to me. There were a bunch of
times where other movements outside of my own or the adjacent

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environmental movement really recognized us as political prisoners and
people that need support. That was really big for me.

Eric King: Yeah, I'm fresh out, but I'd say 90% of the people I talk to right
now are people that supported me when I was inside. You've been out for
alittle bit. Are you still friends with or in communication with anyone
who supported you?

Jake Conroy: Yeah. Claude! [Laughter all around |  mean, T met Claude
before going in. That is a whole other amazing story that Claude and 1 still
nced to sit down and talk about. He was instrumental in bringing animal
rights activists together with the San Francisco Eight, some Black
Panthers, which was a whole other amazing, beautiful lesson learned on
my journey to wherever I am now. That really meant a ot to me. And
Claude was one of the first people I saw when I got out. I was in the
halfivay house, and I told the halfway house that he helped rehabilitate
inmates coming out of prison and adjusting them back to society, which
wwas true. But getting together with Claude while 1 was in the halfuway
house, one of the first people I saw when 1 got out, was really important to

Ithink Claude is a shining example of starting down the road and
supporting people and seeing it through. You can sce that with people that
are still in prison from the *70s and 605 and how much support their
communities still provide them decades and decades later, and having
that spill over to me was really important and beautiful, as well. There are
alot of peaple that T wrote when T was in prison I got letters from and 1
communicated with and became friends with—1 got out in 2009, 2010—
that Tstill see and keep in touch with and hang out with and am friends
with, both people that I wrate and also peaple that I met when I was in
prison and became friends with on the inside. There are a couple people
that Tstill communicate with,

Eric King: Awesome. Claude was one of the first people to text me when 1
got out, also. T thought it was fake, I didn’t think it was real. That was
really nice when Josh hit me up saying, “Claude wants to talk to you.”

ike, “What? No way!” So, I want to talk about back to when we were

inside, when I went and I had a view of the world that I thought was
complete, and prison really helped me restructure that. It helped me see
things more intersectionally. I didn't come from a movement so maybe

ationg the cages "
that was natural for you two, but it really helped open my eyes to
different struggles and also the struggle of incarceration itself and the
impact that has on certain communities much more than it does on my
community. It helped me see what happens to trans folks, to queer folks,
to people of color, and it really opened my eyes to have a more empathetic
approach and a broader view of the movement. So, I'd like to ask both of;
‘you did prison help with your intersectionality? Did it open your eyes to
anything maybe that you didn’t always think about or that wasn't at the
forefront?

Claude Marks: For me, 1 had the advantage, like Jake, of having done many
years of support work for people who were captured as a product of their
resistance. Political prisoner work was something that was familiar to me.
Some of the more obvious things about prison that one can absorb
through doing that certainly helped fortify me before actually going in.
Just understanding through developing relationships with people who
were locked up in cages you get... s sort of an unmasking of what that
life will be when you realize that thats part of your own future or
experience.

To me, that's also a healthy sign to be building movements where people
in their normal everyday lfe stand against the purpose of imprisoning
people in the first place, which is to destroy individuals, families,
communities, movements, all of which takes place. I mean that’s the
purpose of isolation and cages, so being prepared is an important aspect of
that. Nevertheless, it’s a very different life when you're living it day in and
day out. Whatever you do to prepare isn’t an absolute thing, One of the
things that Tlike to reference, that really underscores for me the lesson of
people’s basic humanity, the caricature of imprisonment and who's in it as
solely about out-of-control violence, never understanding that the
perpetrators of that are the people running the place, and the peaple who
are damaged by that process—or any other life challenges beforehand, of
course—they're not in a very supportive environment once they land
inside.

Idon’t want to give the idea that there aren’t damaged people in prisons.
who suddenly figure out how to function better socially. On the other
hand, for the most part, even people who are heavily damaged by the
struggle for survival in an empire like this can and do maintain their basic
humanity. And there’s a way to deal with them, approach people and

B g thecages
develop a relationship that's based on a different set of values that
ultimately sces everybody through whether there’s a crisis that's
immediate or not. I's about a faith in humanity and a sense of what
people can build with one another, even in the harshest circumstances,
that to me is very inspiring about what can also take place in the streets,
and it sort of underscores a hope in organizing, in mobilizing people, and
in challenging some of the backwards stuff that invariably is a product of
‘growing up in a society that has really messed up. Whether that’s taking,
on issues of gender normativity and how that’s exercised in violent ways
inside, to challenging people’s sense of being able to get ahead by
collaborating with staffin order to get privileges, that’s something that we
can struggle with people about, and feel like they're capable of changing
their understanding of things, and changing their behavior.

In my experience, that was definitely true. From the jump, these
s are the epitome of white and male supremacy, and that's
clusive of institutions that are set up to hold women, or people.

institu
certainly

who identify as women, or who are placed in those institutions for
whatever reason that are gender non-conforming. It's challenging all the
way around, and the values that are enforced by the institution are about
insisting on conforming with the most reactionary values that white male
worlds ereate,

portant part of the experience that one recognizes the
capacity of people to go beyond that and to transform themselves and to
understand who the enemy is in the situation, which is not the guy down.
the row who has got some money coming in because of gambling or
whatever. It's complex, but there’s something fundamental about that
that was very centering for me, personally. It also becomes a thing about
figuring out, how do you contribute to building a different kind of
community and a different character among people that are struggling, on
the one hand, with living in cages for a long time, but also have to survive
and have to have the potential to grow and change? I don’t know if that
was clear, but.

Eric King: Very clear. ke, intersectionality, did prison help you expand
upon it? Were you already prepared for these sort of things from doing
prison support previously? Did it help you view the world differently, or
did it change how you viewed the world at all?

g theages 1
Jake Conroy: Yeah, when first got involved, the idea of intersectionaliy,
or collective liberation, or however you want to classify these types of
ideas, were rooted in me pretty early. I certainly was not perfect at it or
had a very good political analysis onit, but it was something that was
always on my mind and Ilearned a lot about, and I continue to learn a lot
about. When Lwent into prison, I think that, for me, what it helped me
with was a little bit of what Claude’s talking about, recognizing humar
and people and the different struggles that everyone has.

e

I0's interesting, because I think about this a lot, but I thi
panel that Claude and I talked in together—in San Francisco, the Howard
Zinn Bookfair [December 2023)—and Claude talked a bit about humanity
then, and finding humanity and people in places, including in prison.
thought alot about that because I think that's what I tried to do, toa
certain extent, and maybe didn’t really realize it. But I think that offering
an opportunity to people to have a conversation in prison was something
that didn’t just help me, but I think helped a lot of people. I think a lot of
people in there were in situations where they had to act a certain way, and
they had to believe certain things, and they had to say certain things and
carry themselves a certain way, and they didn’t have an opportunity—
sometimes for years and years, or even decades—to be able to have their
humanity and be outside of that caricature that they had to play. And
there are a lot of people that were legit that way, they wore those politics,
or they wore those beliefs, or they wore that muscle or whatever, but I
think there’s alot of peaple in there that also just were in a position where
they had to be a certain way and they didn’t have an opportunity to be
happy or silly or goofy or ask questions. They didn’t feel comfortable
asking the people that they are around.

Ithink the two places T actually saw that happen were in the visiting
room, where you'd have a visit, and you'd have all these guys on one side
of the visiting room, and all the families would come in, and some of them
had their kids that they hadn't seen in 6 months or 12 months or 2 years,
and you just see that tough-guy fagade just fade away. You just got to see.
the real side of people, and even more so when the visit was over, and you
had to line up on the other side of the visiting room. The way we did i, we.
all waited there while the families walked out, and you could see them go
out the door, and then one whole side of the visiting room was like glass
walls so you could see your people just walking away and kids, 3-year-olds
and 4-year-olds running across the room trying to give their dad one last

W g hecages
hug, and a cop telling them that they couldn’t is heartbreaking. You could
see the fagade of everyone wash away, and you could see who they really
were on the inside.

‘The only other place I really got to experience that was in my cell. Alot of
times people would come in, and they would sit down, and we'd have a
conversation. People would ask me to help them learn how to read, or
help them with their math homework, or want to talk about the trans
women that were in our unit, or the gay people that were incarcerated, or
they wanted to talk about veganism, animal rights, environmentalism.
Having these conversations were things that people weren't allowed to
have or allowed to o, and getting to help facilitate those little picces of
that were really, really exciting for me and felt really special

Eric King: 1 love hearing you both talk. Tlove it. Theres a lot of things
about post-prison trauma I want to ask, and if we have time I have a lot
‘more questions that I want to get to about prison. But 'd also like to talk
about getting out of prison. For me, it’s still fresh, of course, but there was
Iots of trauma. Its not always the stuf that people think about. It’s not
always the stabbing or fighting or that sort of stuff. There’s deep-seated
hurt, and Pve been fortunate enough to have EMDR therapy and things
like that. T was very fortunate to have people support me in the halfway
house so that 1 didn't have to suffer as much while there. I'd really like to
ask you both about, if you did struggle when you got out, ifyou did have
hurts, if you did have any sort of trauma that you had to work through,
and then what that was like post-prison, whether at the halfiway house o
at home with your families, what the release was like for you inside?

Claude Marks: Well, Pm not sure if 1 would use the word trauma exactly in
my case, but there isn't a day that goes by that the issue of prison isn't
part of i, one way or the other. Whether it’s flashing back on something or
conneeted to current work, to me 1 think it’s hard to separate prison from
other parts of life. Thats also  healthy thing, I¢'s a reminder of where one,
stands, and that other people are faced with this. So, for me, yes,
transitioning out is always complicated.  think it’s more complicated for
people who've done a lot more time and who are struggling with health
issues. For me, that wasn't the case. But 1 know the number one thingis to
‘make sure that somehow we try to figure out how to support people when
they're getting out. In particular, that means getting their ID stuff
together, getting access to medical care, catching up with decades of

g theages S
untreated illness, of harsh treatment. Both physically and psychologically,
all those things are real. And there isn't really a support network. There’s a
big fight in California to make sure that people are getting their $200 gate
money. I mean, what's that going to buy you? It's a small thing, and yet
they're screwing people out of their gate money. Why? Because that’s the
nature of it. What does it mean for someone that’s been down so long that
they're pretty disconnected from family and community and friends to
have $200 in their pocket and have to figure out how to survive? I mean,
that's nuts. There is a larger responsibility in recognizing the ways in
which, even after being released, people who have a history of
imprisonment have tremendous challenges in front of them, and there
aren't really social structures set up to embrace them as they come back.
‘There are, of course, exceptions, but to me this s part of what building a
healthy movement is about. It's not only taking care of people when
they're down but taking care of people when they get back. That involves
resources, but it also involves centering them and paying them the
respect that they deserve for having experienced prison in the first place,
and to ensure them that the community will embrace them again,
irrespective of what resources they already have lined up

‘Eric King: Jake, just to rehash, you've met me, and we've done post-prison
support talks, and I still suffer or go through a lot of emotional trauma
from prison. You've seen me. I still get emotional talking about it. 1 can
still get scared when people are aggressive or whatever, and I had good
halfway house support. When I got released, people showed up for me
huge, and 1 still have those traumas and those problems.

S0, the question is, have you dealt with any issues since being released?
Was the halfiway house okay? Were you supported there? Did you carry.
any trauma with you once you were released, and has that carried on now
today?

Jake Conroy: Yes to all o that.Tll preface it by saying I was very lucky. 1
had lots of support. T had peaple that were willing to help me out. 1 had
someone that was trying to get me a job, and tht sets me ahead of the
game there a bit. But being n the halfway house was awful. 1 didn't want
tobe there. I would have rather stayed in prison. But that also made me
start thinking that I was only in for three and a half years. Am 1
itutionalized, did that happen that quickly, where I felt more
prison? And then I started—1 stil think about this all the

comfortable

o g thecages
time—does becoming institutionalized happen that quickly, and if so,
what a frightening thing, that we have millions and millions and millions
of people that go through the system, and they can be institutionalized so

quickly, where they would rather be incarcerated than one step closer to
being home.

Every prison is different. Every system’s different. Everyone’s experiences
are different. For me, my experiences, 1 was in a fairly rough prison for 25
‘months before I got transferred, but there was a lot of fights and riots and
‘gang warfare and stabbings and beatings every day. All that stuff was
happening and there are certain ways you're supposed to carry yourself. If
someone disrespects you or euts you in line then it’s go time. Youwve got to
fight that person. So, when I got out, and I'm waiting in line at the bus stop.

in San Francisco, and someone cuts me in line, I can feel my heart start
racing, like “What the fuck, did this guy just cut me in line? How dare he.”
And you have to go through your head, “Hey, it's okay, bud. Calm down."
You have to take yourself down a notch.

One of the ways that you had to behave in prison was that when you wake
upin the morning, you had to put your shoes on. You couldn’t walk
around all day in your slides, or your shower shoes, because if there was a
fight, you can't fight in shower shoes. You have to wear shoes from the
time that they open your cell to the time that they close the cell, so taking
your shoes off was not an option. When you get out of prison, for me, and.
this still sits with me, 10 to a friend’s house and it's like, "Oh, we're a
shoes off house, and you've got to take your shoes off,” and I'mlike, "I
can't”” How do you have that conversation? “Well, I can't take off my
shoes in your house because it means that if a fight breaks out, how am I
going to fight?” In a way, it effects you traumatically in certain cases. I’s
like PTSD. There is also that feeling, maybe a little bit of shame. It Il
“How do I have this conversation?” particularly ift's someone that’s not

from an activist background. If1 go to my uncle’s house or my mom's.
house, or just some person I just met, and they're like, “Hey, take your
shoes off,” and you're like, “Well, I can’t because I was in prison.”

There's all these tiny little picces, they’re almost like anchors that were
thrown down when you're in prison, and that chain just keeps dragging
you as you get out. But I was lucky. 1 knew from the very beginning 1

needed to go to therapy. My halfiay house wasn’t going to let me, they
said no, and 1 had to fight them tooth and nail to be able to go to a low-

oty theges 7
income therapist who I worked with for six years. She legitimately saved
me.Twas able to do that work, and that helped me out a lot. But that’s not
to say that its all gone, that those remnants and pieces still don't stick.
with me, just a little more faint. But I also think it's important to hang on
to them in certain regard so that we can talk about them. Ifyou're able
and capable to share these things, we should, because this is an awful,
awful system that we're all thrown into. Whether we're acti
everyone in the prison system essentially is a political prisoner by
very nature of the prison industrial complex, what it is, and so I think it's
important that we who can tell these stories and share these stories, no
matter how awful or upsetting they may be, we do our best to share them,
because we need to continue to talk about the issues and what happens
when people get out.

‘Eric King: I'm not going to say their name because of security culture, but
Tdlove to give a big shout out to my therapists because they offer their
work to me pro bono. 1 don't know what d do without them. I ery all the
time with therapy. Id be a fireeracker without it. Something I respect
about both of you is your continued work post-prison. Jake, 1 don't know
i1 told you this story, but the first time I talked to Claude, I was
respecting how that past generation, our elders, stuck with it and saw it to
the end, like he said. And I admired that. T was telling him I don’t know if1
see the same thing in my generation, like I don’t know who's continuing.
And the first name he brought up was you. He brought it up almost
instantly, like, “Have you met Jake?” I was like, “ actually have not met
Jake, but I read his chapter [in Rattling the Cages).” That was something,
that he had a lot of respect for you. And it’s also something, now that T
know you, Irespect the shit out you, because it's hard to keep working
post-prison. It's hard to do these things. So, I would like to ask both of
you, how was it getting back to activism post-prison and what have you
done that gives you that sense of fulfillment, or that sense of like “I'm
doing good work?” What are you doing, and how does that make you feel
while you're doing it?

Claude Marks: One thing for me s that once I got out I kept doing prison
related work. There were a lot of ways in which that manifests—ongoing
work to free political pri isiting prisons, visiting political
prisoners. I was part of the formation of All of Us or None, which is an
organization of former prisoners demanding a decriminalization of post-
prison life. In many aspects, that has a domestic character to . 1 just for

g hecages
JULY 9, 2015

Sheikh Khader Adnan considers the policy of isolation as a cheap weapon
in the hands of those who hold power. The policy of isolation is used
against American citizens who are victims of the political, econoric, and
social order/system that thrives on greed, discrimination, and the
deprived, including the Affican-Americans and Palestinian resistors such
as Samech Hamoudeh and Sami Al-Aryan.

The policy of isolation exposes the ugly face of these false democracies
that are guilty of occupation, tyranny, and social repression. Hunger
strikes are a courageous step and a real tool for al those who are deprived
of theirrights to lft the existing oppression, and Ihope that these
prisoners will gain their rights and their demands. Today, the hunger
strikes of the Palestinian prisoners inspires those who are detained to
engage in hunger strikes tro guarantee that they are treated humanely
and with respect and dignity.

Tam a former administrative detainee in the Israeli Occupations' prisons,
who has been subjected to the unjust isolation policy. 1 fought in a hunger
strike for 66 consecutive days against the policy of administrative
detention, my detention without charge or trial. I announce my full
solidarity with my 30,000 oppressed brothers in the American prisons,
and 1ask that the American people and government end the policy of
isolation of the detainees and prisoners, and comply by human rights law
that forbids continuous isolation because of its destructive effects on the.
‘mental and physical health of detainees.

g theages 19
March 2016 -

“All the progressives and revolutionaries in the world dedi
for social justice and liberation in Palestine, the U.S,, and
political prisoners and

In addition, anyone who has spent any time incarcerated:
color, and especially Black people, face in this society. We r
fact that so many were incarcerated for non-violent crimes
the socio-economic and psychological conditions that a
cous

‘The Israeli government portrays the Palestinian polit
incarceration doubly hard; but in Palestine, at least prisone:
prison guards and administration. Here in the U.S, the poli
build a shared struggle. When relationships are built with
‘away to isolation in a freezing cold cell, extremely small, w
‘The only thing visible from the isolation cells is the light bu
opening for food to be sent through. It is hard to choose the
‘bad. The most frightening thing is the feeling that they trul
control that responds to the

‘The whole system of incarceration is designed to destroy p
‘Humans are social, 80 to be in isolation not only cuts you o
from yourself. It destroys you emotionally, psychologically

‘whole—this s th

‘That is the toughest challenge being a political prisoner,
frightening, because as long as we believe in our rights
ourselves, and rise up together, we become stronger and n
U3. and all across the world support our Palestinian rights
for Palestinian political prisoners. Prisoners in the U.S. es;
‘Palestine. Despite all challenges, collective victory for U

g thecags
Anonymous

cate their lives to the same hopes and dreams. We all stand
the entire world. We all stand for freedom for Palestinian
all political prisoners!

n the U.S. fully understands the oppression that people of
cognize the racism that they face, the dehumanization, the
, the poverty, the refusal of this government to understand
e the cause of the vast majority of alleged crimes in this
try.

cal activist as a criminal and a terrorist, which makes

s have a shared national liberation struggle when facing the
ical prisoner has to work very hard with other prisoners to
ther incarcerated people, the prison authorities move you
ith no access to blankets, warm clothes, or human contact.
Ib outside. The door is made of thick glass with only a small
worst thing about isolation, because the whole experience is
y want to destroy you or turn you into a tool, like a remote
ir requests and their orders.

ople’s humanity and make them despair and feel hopeless.
f from other people, but also affects you by cutting you off
, and spiritually, and makes you feel as if you are no longer
e deadliest thing.

r a prisoner of any kind in the U.S. But challenges are not
and the principles that we stand for, have confidence in
0re effective. Then we can achieve miracles. People in the
of return, self- determination, independence, and freedom
ecially send their love, respect, and honor to prisoners in
8. prisoners and Palestinian prisoners is in our future.”

asoldarity statement included i the pamphlet
Claude Marks helped to distribute in Plestine

oty theages 2
&

roting the coges
the first time recently visited Kevin Cooper, who stll faces a death
penalty in California, because I think his is an important case to be
involved in. He's challenging his conviction as a juvenile, essentially with
huge amounts of tainted evidence. 1 won't go into details, but take a look.
at Kevin Cooper when you get a charce.

But also understanding that imprisonment has ts forms outside the
boundaries of the US. As was mentioned 1 think at the beginning, I was
part of forming and participating in a delegation of people involved in
challenging imprisonment in the US and former political prisoners that
traveled to Palestine. Part of what we did in advance of actually going was
putting together a pamphlet of solidarity statements from people
imprisoned in the US with the Palestinian struggle, which got translated
into Arabic and printed so that we didn’t have to carry it into the country.
through Isracli security. We were able to distribute and talk about ways in
which it's important to understand building solidarity between prisoners
invarious struggles around the world. All o these kinds of things, to me,
constitute not breaking stride, so 1 el like that’s not uncommon for
people getting out, and I think it's something that should be uplifted.
There's different ways of doing it, but to me it's integral to how 1 identify
in the world, not only having experienced it, but maintaininga connection
toabolition politics, to supporting political prisoners as well, and to an
understanding that political imprisonment, for sure, is part of a global
experience of people who choose to participate in some liberatory politics
and resistance against genocide.

Eric King: Thank you so much. Jake, since being released how have you
found activism? Were you scared? Was it hard to get back into it? 1 have
found for me that doing prison solidarity work is just about the most
rewarding thing I can do. It gives me literally the most feeling of safety
and joy that Ican get, outside of family stuff. How has activism been for
‘you since getting released? You have stuck with it, so Id like to hear about
your experiences in tha.

Jake Conroy: Yeah, that's awesome that you've jumped back into it so
quickly. This i a big question for me, and I talk about it a lot. But 'l try to
condense i, but it was many different parts.

One, Ineeded to take care of myself. 1 knew that I needed help in doing
that and that was searching out, as I said earlier, finding therapy to regain

g theages 33
my sense of self. But it was also searching out and talking to people that
had gone through it before, like Claude, so that I could ask questions and
learn from the people that did it before me. T talked to as many people as 1
possibly could or just went to talks and listened to people at Claude’s
space. You used to have political prisoners come and speak about their
experiences and I would go and listen.

I remember talking with Claude’s co-defendant Donna Jean Willmott
When she got out, T asked her what it was like when she got out, this very
question, and she said there was a cosmonaut that was in space who was
from the USSR, The USSR collapsed while he was in space, and he had no
way to get back, because his country was gone. She said that eventually
when he came back to Earth his whole country was gone. It no longer was
the USSR. She said that she felt a lot like that cosmonaut. And that really
hit home to me. I still remember her telling me that, and I could relate a
ot toitin a way that—I am a cosmonaut—no, I'm just kidding, I could
relate toita lot in that I felt that also, that loss of community. I didn't
know where 1 fit anymore. My movement and my community had
changed, the campaigns and the strategies and the theories of change that
we had were all gone. They were something new that Ididn't really agree
with,

For me, the other pieces I did that were i
involved in movements and activism out

sportant to me was 1 got
e of the animal rights
‘movement, like a wide variety of different communities I could go to and.
engaging them as a participant as opposed to an organizer. I think this is
something we should all do who are involved in activist spaces—we
should participate in other movements as participants and learn from
them, see how they organize, what they’re doing right and what they're
doing wrong, what works, what isn't working, how can we change those
things in our own communities, to grow on them and grow from them. So
Idida lot of that, being in organizing spaces as the participant and
bringing those lessons back to the animal rights movement and beyond,
and having conversations about “This is what I've done in the past, and
this is how other movements are doing it now, and these are how they.
bridge together and come together.” If we can take all these different
pieces and create this new theory of change, I think we can move forward
more successfully. That work really excited me, because I want to see
change in the world, and trying to figure out the best way to do that by
learning from the past and experimenting with the future is what drives

B g thecages
‘me at this point. But I think that grew out of taking care of my myself,
engaging with other movements and communities outside of my own, and
learning from people that have done it in the past. Combining those three
things together is what really inspires me to continue,

Eric King: 1 love you both. We have final questions, but before I get to
those ones I was wondering if you all could take a couple minutes, 'm
going to read or summarize some questions that we've got in the Q¥A,
and if we can just try to get quick answers. One of the first questions is
talking about victories inside. 1 know when 1 was inside, I probably did it
bad by making everything a struggle, everything was as serious as
everything, and it just led to me getting fucked up a bunch. What I really
found were the true victories inside was being able to still connect with,
‘my family, being able to hold empathy, or being able to be there for other
people still and not be so jaded. 1 would like to know—and they would like
to know—if either of you two ever had any tangible victories, like getting
things changed for the better, or just personal victories while you were
inside.

Jake Conroy: There waslittle things that I did that felt like T was bettering
‘myself o just things that I set out to accomplish. One of the things 1 said
when T went in was that I wanted to maintain my sense of selfas much as
Ipossibly could. That was a challenge, obviously. But I wanted to make
sure I laughed every day, so I found something that I found humor in—
wwhich sounds maybe morbid when someone’s incarcerated, but you have
1o find things that make you laugh or smile or make your heart swell, and
feel something besides the only emotion you're allowed to have in prison,
\which is anger. Youre only allowwed to be mad in prison and angry and
upset, and feeling something besides that openly, to me, feels likea little
bit ofa rebellion. That was something I wanted to do.

‘There were other things, too. The prison I was in was very racially divided.
There's alot of division, and you were expected, as a white person, to do.
certain things and fall in line with certain policies and culture. Me being
able to push back against that and do my own time in a way that I wanted
to, that didn’t mean me adhering to racial polities or gang politics, felt like
avery big personal victory. That was very important to me.

There were times when we had problems within the prison in terms of the
inmates having problems with a particular cop. Tor a very brief moment

ity theages 3
secing all of us come together, from all the different races and all the
different gangs, to come together to go down to the mainline where you
can approach the warden and the associate warden and belike, “Hey, you
got a serious problem here, and if it's not taken care of, you're going to
have more problems.” And the warden recognizing it—it's a pretty cool
story. But in my unit we rallied everyone. We're like, “We need a Surefio,
we need a Nortefio, we need a Crip, we need a Blood, and lets all get
together, and we'll go down there together and air our grievances.” I
remember walking to the mainline through the prison, and everyone was
like, “What the fuck is going on here? This is not what was supposed to be
happening” We all pull up to the mainline, and the warden, the associate
warden, the captain, and SIS, they all kind of sidle up, like squaring off and
looking around like, “What are we supposed to do next?” And someone
said, “You've got a real problem with this cop and you need to handle it.”
And the warden going, “T hear you. I know there’s a problem, and we're
going to take care of it.” Then we're all like, “Well, that's not what we
expected to happen.” We just kind of backed away, and then within a
week the cop was removed out of the prison. It would have been great to.
have all the cops remaoved out of the prison, but we'd take one. And that
felt like a really big victory, and it gave this sense to people that we are not
awhite race and a Black race, we are a prison class, and if we organize
together and ride together, then we can make a really big change.
Unfortunately, 1 didn’t get to see that very often, but the few times that
did felt really special, and I hope that those were lessons that were left
with some of the people in there.

‘Eric King: For those listening who don't know, Jake was at Victorville, a
‘medium, which is amongst the worst when it comes to things like violence
and racial prejudice. The place s just a nasty shithole. Glad you're out,
bud. Claude, any tangible policy changes or interpersonal victories that
you won or accomplished in prison?

Claude Marks: 1 mean, none of them were personal. 1 think there were a
lot of things happening when I was locked up, everything from who is
going to control the heroin trade, to whether or not there was going to be
some impact on the differential of sentencing between crack and powder
cocaine—which is clearly evidence of white supremacy and the inherent
racism of the so-called judicial process—and a tremendous uprising inside
to challenge that, basically with Black prisoners taking the position that
this is not going to be an institution that you can control unless this

3 g thecages
sentencing stuff changes. Obviously not an immediate victory. However,
what it did create was a level of organization inside, certainly among
‘Black prisoners, but also to the extent that there was a level of solidarity
shown tremendously changed some of the social fabric for a period of
time inside.

Some of the struggles are just revelatory in terms of how stupi
are. Tl tell one stupid story. I really felt like the library needed a

tionary that talked about the etymology of language, which exists. So

this dictionary gets ordered in two volumes which has to do with the
etymology of language in English, and the type is so small that the
dictionary arrives with a magnifying glass because that's the only way you
can read it. Well, of course the magnifying glass isn't allowed in the prison,
because it can be seen as a weapon. So, what ends up happening is here’s
the two volume set of the Oxford English Dictionary, but nobody can read.
it, because they won't give us the magnifying glass to see what the words.
are. That's typical. Now, I wouldn't call that a large vietory, but it's a
victory that unmasks the insanity that goes into creating a structure that
wants to prevent people from advancing their own knowledge, and so
there you go.

prisons

Eric King: For those listening, my one tangible victory, 1 was in the SHU,
and they had already taken away phone calls, visits, and em;
warden said that he was going to take away all books, magazines,
newspapers, and radios, because we were using them as contraband, or
whatever. Me and Smiles, aka Randy, who was at the ADX with me also, he
wwas facing extra charges and ran the team four days ina row and dida
hunger strike the entire four days. After a while the warden just got so
tired of having to suit those boys up that he let me and Smiles keep our
radios. I felt really tough. 1 felt so tough. So, briefly, if you were to go down
today, right now, what would support look like for you? What sort of
support do you think is most necessary for either political prisoners or
social prisoners today?

Claude Marks: How come  get to start al the time? Geet. These rules are
ppressive. You realize that creating an institutional process by which.
Anyway. To me, abviously maintaining connections to family and
community and political movements. I mean, how do you fight for that?
Well, you just have to. And people do that, and they fight to retain their
own humanity inside, and they look to develop relationships that are

oty theages 27
going to be ones of sustenance. The prison doesn’t want that to happen.
S0, that’s the nature of what you have to deal with. Whoever you are,
you'l figure out a way to do that, if you're going to maintain some kind of
centeredness.

To me, having along-term vision that we're part of a struggle to try to
transform social relations, that we're trying to destroy the structural
nature of empire—and that's a long-term thing—so we can’t be so
demanding that our survival is going to be predicated on making quick
changes or answering all the questions at once, whether we're in or out.
T'm well into my 70’s, and I'm still trying to figure out some of those
questions, but I also feel good about being this old and still being in a
position to be able to grapple with the larger questions that are global,
that are about what impact or role I can play despite a pretty ugly world
out there.  haven't been able to stop the zionists, but I'm going to keep
trying, that’s for damn sure.

‘Eric King: Thank you. Jake, briefly, what if you were put down today, or if
you had words to advise people on what the best way to support someone
today, what would you say?

Jake Conroy: I'm not good being briet, but Il try my best. T think that I
was in a unique position because myself and my co-defendants were
allowed to self:surrender. The biggest threat to the security of the United
States were found guilty and then put on house arrest for nine months
and then self-surrendered to federal prison. So, Lactually got to build,
essentially, my own support, From a practical standpoint, yes, o all the
stuff Claude said. But from a practical standpoint, for me, that meant
building my own webpage (because I was a nerd,  built a support
webpage). I made a book list of ll the books that I would be interested in
reading. We did a bunch of fundraising to ry to get money into a support
fund that then could be dispersed to us in little picces throughout our
incarceration. There were six of us so we each had our own point person,
and then those point people were part ofa SHAC 7 support fund. There
was someone that spearheaded the support fund, and then we had
ividual support people that we conneeted to.

What else do we do? I had my paperwork sent in. That's a whole other
discussion, but T had my lawyer send my paperwork in so it was there

when I got there, so 1 didn’t have too many problems with being labeled

B g thecages
this, that, or the other thing. T have my legal paperwork to prove it. What
else did 1 do? I had nine months to figure out what did I want to do before
Iwent in—what food, talking with my loved ones, talking with my partner
at the time, having big conversations about how relationships would work
orlook like throughout incarceration. All these lttle practical things that 1
did, which were somewhat helpful, but also just to keep my mind offit,
really.

At the end of the day, you can never prepare for what's coming. You can
pretend like you're prepared, but at the end of the day you're goinginto a
whole new world that probably you have no idea what it’s like or what it’s
going to be like. That's something else I did: There were other political
prisoners that I wrote letters to who were incarcerated. I said, “Tell me
everything” and we would write 5, 10, 15 page letters back and forth for
nine months. But again, alllittle picces that were helpful, but nothing
could have prepared me for what the next three and a half years of my life
was going to belike.

Eric King: 1 was also wildly unprepared. My answer to that would be
interpersonal relationships. Build deep connections with someone if you
know they're going . Its very tough. We've got people like Casey Goonan,
ke the Florida Four, there'll be
different folks fighting against zionism, that vitably end up i
‘What words would you say to them? What would you say to people about
supporting prisoners, the value of it, or what would you say to those
people going in about the value of their struggle?

Jake Conroy: Why do I gotta go first? [Laughter all around.] T will vaguely
answer your question with an answer Lalways give. Political prisoner
support for people that are going in—whether you're going n, or whether
‘you are going to support people—the support is a lfcline.  can't stress
that enough. T was very lucky that 1 got letters almost every single day,if
‘my mail was delivered by the prison. Every single day I would have gotten
letters. Every single day that's another story. But every letter was like an
escape. Twould get the leter, Twould take it to my cell I would open it up,
Iwould read it very slowly, 5, 10 minutes, 20 minutes, however long

took me to read it, and then I would put it back in the envelope, and I'd
write a letter in response, if had the stamps to do so. If 1 was lucky I got 5
letters or 10 letters or 15 letters, and every letter was 10 to 15 minutes plus
areply, and every one of those was a jilbreak. Every one of those was an

g theages 20
opportunity for me to escape—I was outside those prison walls, outside of
my cell, out over the fences into the desert. And those saved my
figuratively and literally.

So0,if you are in a position where you're going in, or you know someone
that's going in, or you just support the idea of why those peaple are in—
political prisoners or not—then write them a letter. Write them a letter.
Send them a book. Put a couple bucks on their books to buy things. Make a
new friend and maintain correspondence with that person. 1's the
longevity of the support that also i incredibly important.

‘Eric King: Me and Josh Davidson put out Rattling the Cages, and that's a
book we put it out while I was in the most restricted prison in the country.
We did that because of prison support, because someone cared. He cared
enough about me to build a real relationship instead of a tokenized one
and that made a big difference in my entire life. And we're still great

nds today. This whole thing is happening because of Josh caring
enough about all of us. So, that's what I would recommend, too.

Claude Marks: 1 don't really have that much to add, really. Twould
underscore what Jake was saying, 1 feel like the purpose of prison s to
disappear people. Our responsibility is to make sure that doesn't happen.

‘Eric King: Hell yeah. We've got a couple minutes left, so I'd ke to talk
about what you all have going on right now. I'd like to talk about Freedom
Archives. I'd ke to talk about YouTube stuff, and raising money for all
those projects. Whatever you guys have going on right now, if you could
just please let the people know.

Claude Marks: We're actually working on a documentary that is about the
Puerto Rican independence movement, told through the voices of former
Puerto Rican political prisoners from various political groups that were
part of confronting the colonial state, the United States. I’ very exciting.
We are going to finish a few interviews in Chicago at the end of this month
and then start putting stuff together. We've done a couple trips to Puerto
Rico, of course, to interview people there. To me tha’s not unusual and
part of a continuum of a theme for me.

But Freedom Archives, which is behind doing this, also is constantly
hosting people, whether they're young peaple who are just coming in

o g thecages
contact with radical history for the first time or more seasoned
researchers. The idea of the larger project is to preserve the history of
radical struggle, the voices that are essentially subjugated, that are
intentionally hidden from people, in order to give us a sense that there’s a
continuity to opposing US imperialism and all o the grotesque thing;
the world, that people have been struggling for a long time, and we have a
Lot to learn from them if we have access to what they experience and
think and have to say, that this is part of growing a movement, from this
point forward that we not allow ourselves to ecome disconnected from
all of our ancestors who fought hard and in many cases died in the
struggle.

And that’s true globally, that the lessons for how to understand the world
and how to fight for a better one aren't led from within the empire, they're
actually led from those outside the borders that have a lot more to gain,
and from that resistance, despite all the odds. Obviously, when you look at
what's happening in Palestine, that’s a clear example of people who aren’t
going to fold, irrespective of the level of violence that’s being unleashed
against them. And that struggle, too, has longevity and history, and
fortunately the Archive is a place that you can look into that, as well as
other stuff. So check s out, folks.

Eric King: Please donate to the Freedom Archives. Jake, what do you have
going on and how can people support it?

Jake Conroy: Nothing, Nothing as cool as Claude. Freedom Archives is
amazing. Definitely check it out. Ispent the last bit working on a bunch of
projects that I suddenly just stopped working o, and I'm figuring out
how to start them back up. I'm very close to finishing a book that 1 wrote
about my experiences in prison. 1do a YouTube channel that is called the
Cranky Vegan—which is a good lesson in pick your username smartly
because theyl be stuck with you forever—where  talk about strategies
and tactics of grassroots movements, predominantly in the animal
‘movement, encouraging people to do mre thinking into strategic
pressure campaigns. I do a podeast called Radicals & Revolutionaries.
also do a lot of trainings and workshops around the world. Pm very
privileged to be able to travel around and do these lectures about my time
in prison, about the SHAC campaign, and 1 also do half.day workshops on
how to organize pressure campaigns more strategically in your
communites, which ' happy to do if anyone s inerested. S0, yeah,

g theages 3
that's basically what Pm doing now, and just continuing on my growth to
be a happier person, which is a new goal of mine,

‘Eric King: Thank you so much, both of you. Ialwayslike ending these
things by encouraging people to write a prisoner. 1 always insist on Randy
Platt. He's got 14 more years in the federal supermax, and he's my best

nd. But any prisoner will do. It doesn't have to be a political one,
though it definitely doesn’t hurt to support people that are fighting for the
causes you believe in. We all need and deserve love. Thank you both so
much. This was a real huge blessing for me, getting o talk to my two.

iends, so thank you. Libertie, if you want to shut it down and get s out
of here. Josh?!

Josh Davidson: s atually me, yes. Libertie’s got internet problems so
I'm going to be closing us down today. Thank you everyone for coming
out. Thank you Claude, Jake, and Eric for this. Sign up for the next talk and

support Firestorm. Stay safe and stay dangerous and we'll talk to you next
time.

S g thecages
People, Places, Events, & Organizations

Jomes Kilgore — a rescarcher and activist based in Urbana, Mlns. Jim s the
father of two sons and life partner of African historian Terri Barnes. He s the
author of six books,including The Warchouse: A Visual Primer on Mass
Incarceration and Understanding Mass Incarceration: A People’s Guide to the
Key Civil Rights Struggle of Our Time (2015). He drafted fous of those volumes
(including this one) during his six and a half years in California prisons as o
political prisoner. He is currently a Building Community Power Fellow at
Community Justice Exchange and formerly a research fellow at MediaJustice,
swhere he founded the Challenging E-Carceration project, He is also director of
advoeacy and outreach for FirstFollowers Reentry Program in Champaign,
Hlinois. Jim also contributed to the book Rattling the Cages.

National Jericho Movement — a movement with the defined goal of gaining
recognition of the fet that political prisoners and prisoners of war exist inside
of the United States, despite the United States’ government's contined denal .
‘and winning amnesty and freedom for these political prisoners. The Jericho
Movement grew out ofa cal for a national march on the White House during.
Spring Break of 1998 by political prisoner Jalil Muntagim. The call was made in
October of 1996 through the Provisional Government —Republic of New Afrika
‘and the New Afrikan Liberation Front, but the organizers decided to use this
opportunity to jumpstart a much needed movement to build a national support
organization for political prisoncrs in general.For more information:

wwew.thej

ichomovement.com

San Francisco 8 — eight former Black Panthers were arrested January 20rd 2007
in California, New York and Florida on charges related to the 1971 killing of a San
Francisco police offcer. Similar charges were throw out after it was revealed
that police used torture to extract confessions when some of these same men
were arrested in New Orleans in 1972, Richard Brown, Richard O'Neal, Ray
Boudreaus, and Hank Jones were arrested in California. Francisco Torres was
arsested in Queens, New York. Harold Taylor was arrested in Hlorida. Two of
those charged were political prisoners at the time - Herman Bell and Jalil
Muntagim are both in New York State prisons. Harold Taylor and John Bowman
(recently deceased) as well as Ruben Scott (thought to be a government witness)
were first charged in 1975. But a judge tossed out the charges, finding that Taylor
and his two co-defendants made statements after police in New Orleans
tortured them for several days employing electric shock, cattle prods, beatings,
sensory deprivation, plastic bugs and hot, wet blankets for asphyxiation.

Al of Us or None — a grassroots civil and human rights organization ighting for
the rights of formerly-and currently-incarcerated people and our families, We
are fighting against the discrimination that people fce every day because of
arrest or conviction history. The goal of All of Us or None is to strengthen the

oty theages 3
Voices of people most affected by mass incarceration and the growth of the
prison-industrial complex. Through our grassroots organizing, we are building
powerful political movement to win full restoration of our human and civil
rights. Learn more about us by watching our videos Locked Up, Locked Out and
Enough s Enough belov. For more information:
prisonerswithhildren.org/about-sowon/

‘Casey Goonan — a dedicated community educator, writer, distroist, and printer
whohas committed their lfe to struggles for iberation. A federal investigation
by the FBl and several other law enforcement agencies resulted in Casey's arrest
for lleged politically motivated "crimes.” Since June 17 2024, Casey has been
incarcerated at Santa Rita Juil facing federal felonies that could result in up (0.20
‘ears of imprisonment. Freeing Casey will ikely be a long fight. Just as Casey has
persistently for years cared for, supported, and struggled slongside incarcerated
comrades, we aim to replicate these actions in solidarity with Casey as they
continue their struggle from the other side of the wall. For more information:
freccaseynownoblogs.org/

Florida 4 — 4 queer activists who faced up (0 12 years in Federal prison on
charges related to gralTt at a Pregnancy Crisis Center, aka a building funded by
church and state o dissuade people from getting abortions. The Department of
Justice is charging them under the FACE Act,a riminal law passed in the 1990s
to stop threats, violence and blockades against health clinics that offered like
abortions, serecnings, contraception and other services under attack by
religious extremists in the USA. There are also Strategic Lawsuits Against Public
Participation, known also s a SLAP suits being brought by a Miarmi-based
Christian anti-sbortion Crisis Pregnancy Center called Heartbeat of Miarmi as
well s the state of Florida sgainst the accused apparently intended to have s
chillng effect and minimize their ability to defend themselves against the.
Federalindictments. Caleb Freestone was sentenced to one year n prison
Septembes

t080 days in prison. The fourth defendant s taking their case to trial. For more
information: slarc blogspo.com

2024, Amber Smith Stuart and Annarella Rivera were both sentenced

Stop Cop City — a decentralized movement in Atlanta, Georgia, whose goal is (0
stop construction of the Atlanta Public Safety Training Center (known a5 Cop
City) by the Atlanta Police Foundation and the City of Atlanta. The proposed.
location for the facilty s the Old Atlanta Prison Farm. The movement has
imvolved forest defense tactics like trec-sits, encampments,industrial subotage,
s well s broader tacties like acting against contractors involved, mass
demonstrations, petitions,ete. Georgia State Troopers and other

launched a raid against forest defenders on January 16, 2020 and assassinated a
‘youung forest-defender named Tortugita (Manuel Terdn) Alter a protest on
March 5, 2020 during a week of action convergence, construction and police
equipment were destroyed, and police launched a raid on a nearby music

S g thecages
festival arresting dozens of people. At least 61 Defend the Atlanta Forest / Stop.
Cop City protestars have been charged with domestic terrorism under RICO
charges, including an Atlanta bail fund.

Freedom Archives — The Freedom Archives s a non-profit educational archive
located in Berkel

audio, video, and print materials documenting progressive movements and
culture from the 1960s to the 1990s. Offering a youth development program
focused on engagement with these historical materials and providing media
production training, we also produce original documentaries and educational
resaurces for use by schools and organizations us Lools for community building,
‘and social justice work. The materials housed at the Frecdom Archives—over

dedicated to the preservation and dissemination of histori

12,000 hours of audio and video recordings —include: weekly news, poetry,
music programs; in-depth interviews and reports on social and cultural issues;
‘umerous voices from behind prison walls and recordings of diverse.
demonstrations and activists. We are also in the process of scanning and
cataloging thousands of historical documents, pamphiets, journals, newspapers,
‘and other print materials from many radical organizations and movements
swhich enrich our media holdings. The digitzed materials in our archives are frec
for use and constitute s compelling record of 50 years of recorded sound, images
‘and cultural divessity. The colleetions are an invalusble resource for young
people and students, teachers, diverse community organizations, flmmakers,
activists, historians, atists, media outlets, and rescarchers. For more.
information: freedomarchives.org/about]

Write to Political Prisoners
‘mentioned in this conversation

Casey Goonan #UMF227
Santa Rita Jail
5325 Broder Blvd
Dublin, CA 94568

Caleb Freestone #07786-506
FCI Yazoo City Low
P.0. Box 5000
Yazoo City, MS 3994

Marius Mason #04672-061
FMC Fort Worth
P.0.Box 15330
Fort Worth, TX 76119

Randy Platt #20764-081
USP Florence ADMAX.
PO Box 8500
Tlorence, CO 80501

‘nycabe.wordpress.com/write-a-letter/

g thecags
Rattling the Cages

1) Political Prisoners, Mass Incarceration, & Abolition
Eric King, Herman Bell, David Gilbert, Susan Rosenberg

2). Continuing the Struggle Inside & Out

Eric King, Ashanti Alston, Ray Luc Levasseur

3) Antifascism Behind Bars
Eric King and David Campbell

4) Black August & Prisoner Support
Eric King, dequi kioni-sadiki, Harold Taylor

5) Eric King in Conversation with James Kilgore
Eric King, James Kilgore

6) Post-Prison Activism & Archiving Resistance
Eric King, Jake Conroy, Claude Marks

7) Until All Are Free
Eric King, Jason Hammond, Jeremy Hammond

8) Revolutionary Women Behind Bars

Eric King, Linda Evans, Laura Whitehorn, Nicole Kissane

9) Becoming Politicized in Prison
Eric King, Josh Davidson, Heetor Rodriguez, Farhan Ahmed

10) Rattling the Cages: How We Dit It & How You Can Too

Eric King, Sara Falconer, Josh Davidson

all conversations are available @FirestormCoop on youtube

oty theages 37
Support Political Prisoners

As yowve heard & read, it is vital that we support the political prisoners
of our liberation movements. Providing support builds bridges across and
through prison bars, giving those locked inside a connection to the
outside world. Your support matters.

Get involved. Write to a political prisoner—a simple letter provides a
needed eseape. Visit them in prison. Ask what a political prisoner needs

and do what you can to help them. Offer them support.

Visit the NYC Anarchist Black Cross website (nycabe.wordpress.com) and
learn more about those currently imprisoned for political reasons.

Buy a Certain Days: Freedom for Political Prisoners calendar
(certaindays.org).

Visit your local Books Through Bars group and send books to those.
incarcerated (booksthroughbarsnyc.org/resources).

Join your nearest Anarchist Black Cross group (abef.net)

Visit rattlingthecages.com to learn more.

5 g thecages
ationg the cages
linktr.ee/rattlingthecages

In conversation with Rattling the Cages co-
editor Eric King, former political prisoners
Jake Conroy and Claude Marks discuss their
experiences in prison andhow they've stayed
active and engaged in liberation struggles
after being released, including through the
collection and archiving our histories of
resistance.

This event was a fundraiser for
the Freedom Archives

freedomarchives.org

FRESTORM