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“Antifascism Behind Bars”
Originaly hosted us aliv conversation by Firestorm Books,
recording available on Firstorm' youtube channel
Whevyoutube.com watchiv-OMKiSe. LGOI

Joly 21,2024

Publshed by AK Pross, Ratding the Cages: Oral Histries of North American
PoliticalPisoners s roject of abolitionists Josh Davidson and Eric King, The
ook illed with the expericnce and wisdom of over hist current and former
North Amrican poiical prisoners. It provides first-hand detal of prison e and
the poliieal commitments that continue o lesd prisoners into direet confrontation
with state authorites and insitutons.

Transcription, editng, and formatting by ev, Danielle,Josh & Jeremy with help
from Firestorm Boak.

allsbor votunteered

with whatever weapons a hand

Eric King s a father, poet, author, and activist. In December 2023 he was,
released from the supermax ADX prison after spending nearly ten years as
a political prisoner for an act of protest over the police murder of Michael
Brown in Ferguson, Missouri. He was held in solitary confinement for
vears and was met with violence by guards throughout his incarceration.
Eric has published three zines: Battle Tested (2015), Antifa in Prison (2019),
and Pacing in My Cell (2019). His sentencing statement is included in the
book Defiance: Anarchist Statements Before Judge and Jury (2019). Eric
‘now works as a paralegal for the Bread and Roses Legal Center.

David Campbell is a lover of language and the arts, who was two weeks
away from moving to Paris to study French translation when his
dedication to combat the alt-right drew him to a protest. At the protest, a
brawl broke out in which a fifty-six-year-old intoxicated alt-right man
was knocked unconscious. Cops stepped in and broke David’s leg in two
places. The District Attorney’s office filed gang assault charges against
‘David, who took a noncooperating plea agreement. He served cighteen
‘months at Rikers Island, coinciding with the outbreak of the COVID
pandemic. David translated Revolutionary Affinities: Toward a Marxist
Anarchist Solidarity (2023), a sweeping history by French authors Olivier
Besancenot and Michael Lwy.

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Alissa Azar is an independent journalist originally from Syria who covers
right wing violence and activity, as well as antifascism in the Pacific
Northwest. In May they were arrested and charged with trespassing while
attempted to cover the police clearing ofa pro-Palestinian encampment at
Portland State University, for which they were sentenced to 14 days in jail
Alissa has reccived support from a coalition of organizations, including
the Freedom of the Press Foundation and the Committee to Protect
Journalists.

‘The International Anti-Fascist Defense Fund (IADF) founders saw a need
for a standing fund that could be used to provide immediate support to
anti-fascists and anti-racists anywhere in the world, whenever they found
themselves in a difficult situation as a result of their stand against hate.
Modeled on the defense fund run by the Anti-Racist Action Network in the
late 1990s/early 20005, the IADF accepts proposals for support from
anyone. For more information: intlantifadefence.wordpress.com

A et s
Libertie Valence: We really appreciate everybody turning out tonight. My
name is Libertie, and 'm a member of The Firestorm Collective. Tonight
we're excited to host contributors to Rattling the Cages: Oral Histories of
North American Political Pisoners for a conversation on the political and
physical implications of opposing fascism and white supremacy wi

living under state control. 1f you don't already know, this i part ofa series
that Eric King and Josh Davidson have been coordinating with our friends
from AK Press. This is actually the third event in the series, so definitely
g0 check out the frst two which were fantastic. They're available on
YouTube.

Firestorm is a 16-year-old radical bookstore owned and operated by a
queer feminist collective in southern Appalachia on the land of the
Cherokee people. We strive to feature books and events like this one that
reflect our interests and the needs of marginalized communities in the
South. We're also continuing to do book events online in addition to doing
things in store, because we love to be able to connect with people at a
ance and across borders as we're doing tonight, and also because we
know that Covid continues to be a signi
our community to connect and engage.

Tonight, in anticipation of the International Day of Solidarity with Ant
Fascist Prisoners on July 25th, we're doing this event as a fundraiser for
the International Anti-Fascist Defense Fund, and as of a few minutes ago
whenT checked it looked like attendees had helped us raise about $350
which is great.

‘Thanks so much friends! Really appreciate you joining us here. 1 know
\we're gonna have a great conversation. P'm going to go ahead and pass it
offto Alissa.

Alissa Azar: Thank you so much for hosting us and having us today. I think
this is going to be an interesting and informative talk. Before we start, |
just wanted to say: solidarity with Palestine! Solidarity with Palestinians
and with the resistance! Solidarity with anti-fascists everywhere! don't
want t0 say that word now in an elevated political climate because I think
fascism has been here for quite some time, but things certainly do seem to
be escalating rather quickly at the same time as a sort of mainstream-
ification of fascism, i you will, so 1 think solidarity now i really,really so
important

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‘The first question T have for you guys is if you could start off with maybe
sharing what you were charged with, what you were sentenced for, and,
‘maybe how long you both spent inside?

‘David Campbell: Yeah, sure. T could start that. I was originally charged
with a whole range of wacky stuf. 1 was charged with loitering while
wearing a disguise, and, oh man, all kinds of stuff that was thrown ou.
The cop, as Libertie mentioned, broke my leg when he arrested me and
just kind of appeared on the scene while this brawl was going on, didn't
say anything, just charged at me, broke my leg. Immediately the paper
trail that he started ereating was that, “He was super violent, I had to
restrain him with my partner, and he was trying to put me in a headlock,
and put this other guy in a headlock ” None of that was true.

My original charges and what was picked up and reported, not very
heavily on—but for a minute there it was held up by the far right, was
going around Twvitter and tabloids—was that I had tried to strangle this
guy, this 56 year old guy, who was knocked out, that I punched him
repeately, that I tried to strangle the cop, and nothing about my leg,
right? That was the original narrative, and the charges fit that narrative,
because cops can do this. They will create a narrative. They'll craft charges
to fit it,and the DA will be like, “Yeah, that sounds reasonable. Let’s give
this guy X’ amount of time.” Right? It happens all the time. 1 swear to God.
Iwould not have been able to tell you that before my arrest, but I promise
you that's a real thing,

‘Then we got video camera footage—video camera footage, you know, like
the kids for their video cameras—so we got security camera footage,
and it showed none of this. All those charges were dropped, and they
charged me with gang assault, which is very hard to beat. It's a New York
state law that dates to the Giuliani era when they were locking up lots of
young Black and brown men primarily, you know “cleaning up the city.”
I a very low burden of proof. You fit the statute if you are in a group of
three or more people and yow're in a fight. I's a three and a half year
‘mandatory minimum. Basically, it with three or more
people and they have video of it, you can’t claim self-defense unless you
try to run away first, right? You're going to do three and a half years in
prison if they want to pursue that. There were a couple other charges on
there, like assault with an object. I kicked the guy while wearing a shoe, so
instead of just charging me with simple assault, they charged me with

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assault with an object, the object being my shoe. I wasn't wearing Nazi
stomping steel toe boots, 1 was wearing a lightweight mesh-top running
sneaker, and that counts as an object. T could have hit him with a brick,
and it would have been the same charge.

All that to say, I know it's alittle complicated, but the charges that they
throw at you could be any number of things. They want to justify their use
of force. They want to justify why they picked you, when really there’s no
reason, they just picked somebody. They saw dudes in suits and dudes in
black bloc, and they're like, “T'm gonna arrest one of those dudes in black
bloc.” What I ended up taking a non-cooperating plea to was attempted
‘gang assault and assault with an instrument. That got me 18 months. I
served 12.1 was actually in 12.

Eric King: 1 was arrested in 2014 after throwing Molotov cocktails at a
congressman's office in Kansas City. 1 had gone to Ferguson to participate
in the uprising. 1 was there for a couple days and a night. When I came
back into the city, no one in Kansas City was really open to direct action,
oratleast no one that I knew. We had our lttle tiny affinity group and got
towork. When that wasn't really raising the temperature in Kansas City,
like raising awareness for action and solidarity with those in Ferguson, T
decided to try to take it one step further. T was charged with—kind of how
you were hit with the weapon thing because it was your shoe—I was
charged with possession of an incendiary device, using an incendiary
device, using an incendiary device against a government building, and
then possession of an incendiary device in a government building. It's all
the same, like it’s all one thing. You threw a fucking bottle.

David Campbell: Yeah. They also seem incompatible, like you can't be
possessingit, using e the building, attacking the... But they could
stack charges, right? Ridiculous.

Eric King: It was a 15-year mandatory minimum. We ended up taking the
‘non-sniteh plea—or 30 years minimum~—we took the non-snitch plea, got
it down to just the one charge with a mandatory minimum of 10 years. 1
ended up doing nine years and five or four months of that sentence. Seven
and a half of that was in solitary, was in the shoe, or ADX, and I'm happy to
be here.

Alissa Azar: We're very happy that you're both out. Follow-up for both of

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all, what was the security level of the facilities that you were in? What
facilities were you in, like jail versus prison? Can you kind of expand on,
your experiences there?

‘David Campbell: I'm pretty nit-picky in stuff that I write about not using
the terms jail or prison interchangeably, but here, just so we're all aware,
orally, it doesn’t bother me nearly as much, just because that’s how people
talk. Technically, T didn’t go to prison. I went to jail right, but talking
about being an anti-fascist in prison, 'm not going to say, “I'm not going
to that panel because that’s wrong,” you know. But technically, didn't go
to prison, I've never been to prison. Jail guys,like if you're injail there’s
lot of guys who've been in and out of jail for years for lttle tiny petty
erimes, you know, like boosters, right, guys who are addicted to a hard
drug, they steal stuff here and there, and they go in for a couple days,a
couple weeks, whatever, over the years, never been in prison, right, 5o it’s
avery different culture.

Security level kind of vi
island. ' an island v

ies according to housing unit. I was in Rikers
h a bunch of different facilities, right, and you
have high security buildings and units within buildings on Rikers. Where 1
was, I was among sentenced men. Everybody’s doing 16 months max,
that's the longest you can do: 16 months. People doing 16 months are
pretty rare. 1 had a long sentence at 18 months. I was doing 12. Doing 12
‘months is pretty long by those standards. There's different security levels
within that, but in general people kind of behave, right, because if you're
not an idiot, youl see the street again pretty soon. Then you have a
security classification level. That's given to you based on this intake
interview they do. You can or can’t get outside work clearance, you can or
can't get into certain programs and stul, depending on your security
level,right?

Rikers is generally medium, like the population I was in, and ina
population where people behave. It's a very different ball game from
prison. I think Eric probably had a very different experience, because, for.
one, he went to actual prison. Eric, you want to take that?

‘Eric King: Yeah. I'm interested also. There's a followup question I'm going
to have for you—you can answer it when I'm done—about whether or not
the conditions are better for the sentenced people at Rikers than for the
non-sentenced people. I'd be interested to know that.

5 et s
Twas in the feds. T was i

the federal system, and in the feds there’s four
custody levels. There’s low, medium, penitentiary, supermax. 1 don’t even
count camps. I don't even list them. If you don’t have a fence, I don’t count
it.Twas in all four. I think there’s only been seven people ever to do that in
the BOP. Iwas able to work my way up to a medium, work my way up toa
penitentiary, and then work my way up to the supermax. 1 got to
experience everything that the BOP has to offer, and it’s a nightmare. 1
cannot stress enough how horrible the bureau of prisons is. This isn't, it's
not like you hear about “Club Fed” and that shit, like maybe for the camps
that exist, but 1 did seven years in the shoe, and four of that 1 didn’t have
radio, phone calls, books, magazines, newspapers. If you resist in the BOP,
you get crushed. I experienced that. I felt that.

Thisisa

hthearted, fun talk, but I do want everyone listening to
understand that they go after you, and they go after your family. They
abused my isit me. They taunted and tried to
pick fights with my kids. T had litle five-year-olds. These dudes are full-
throttle pieces of shit that want to hurt us. And they do. 1 don’t even know
ifTanswered your question,

when she'd come to

But I do want to know about whether or not there are different quali
and how you're treated per sentence or not sentence.

David Campbell: For one, I was never detained on Rikers, I was never in
pre-trial detention on Rikers, so.1 can’t speak to that from personal
experience. 1 was in two different buildings. I started off in C76—if anyone
Knows Rikers buildings, I was in the six. Then I was in the four, C74. After
about two and a half months, they moved me to the four, and I spent most
of my bid there. The six is dedicated, or was at the time, entirely to
sentenced men, so people serving what they call “city time,” 16 months or
less. When I was moved to the four, there are certain units for people
serving “city time,” serving a sentence of 16 months or less, but the other
units are guys who are in pre- rial detention. You wear different color
uniforms. s very clear who's serving a cty sentence, who's serving city
time, and who's pre-trial. You're not in the same housing unit, but you will
g0t0 the yard with other housing units, and they might have pre-trial
detainees. We call them “tans.” They call us “greens” You wear green, they
wear tan.

You see tans in the hallway, in the clinic, you might have a job... Like I

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worked i

the kitchen, I worked alongside abunch of tan guys for months.
You went to the yard with them, you know, stuff like that, visits, the

visiting room, where you're waiting to go out on the floor, you're changing.
clothes... You spend time with these guys that are in pre-trial detention. T
got much more of an idea what life was like for them than T had in the six,
just mingling with them. They have it harder. Some of those guys, like
they might be in for something really petty, they might be in for parole
violation, but other guys, they might have committed a really serious
erime, and they might know that their goose is cooked, and they're going
t0go away for along time, so they're already invested in prison culture,
more than they are keeping their eyes on the street, you know, getting.
back to the street, the way we are. For sure, | mean it's a survival thing, It
‘makes total sense.

‘There's very much a cultural difference between pre-trial detainees and
“clty time” inmates. We call ourselves ‘skind of a
loaded word, but that’s what everybody says. “City time” pris
say that it’s not because I'm a boot-licker. don’t even know. The word
“inmate” in prison has serious connotations as opposed to “conviet.” I
didn't even know that until it was eight months into my bid. A guy who
had served time upstate was like, “You know upstate we don’t say the
word inmate, right?”

mates.” I know

oners. 1

‘Eric King: In the feds if someone calls you an inmate it means you're a
fucking nare, and you need to get to work. Very ser

‘David Campbell: Yeah, but we just say “inmate,” ik
During the George Floyd Rebellion, one dude was like, “Inmates need to be
turning it up for Brianna Taylor!” You could you say inmate in that way,
andit's clear that, because it's such a radical context, it just means
prisoner. But, yeah, there’s a big cultural difference. To just put a button
on that, “city time” s very interesting because it is—again speaking as a

guy who's never been in pre-trial detention and never been in prison—

very distinet from both of those experiences. Based on talking to other
guys and just living through the “city time” experience, in prison you have
more, in general, you have more amenities. I think if you're doing time in
the shoe—I mean, I'm interested to hear your thoughts on this—but guys
who had been upstate, including all security levels, were like, “People take
the prisoner cade more seriously there.” Theres more of like a set of rules.
about what you do and don’t do in front of people. I's considered

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disrespectful to do this, that, or the other. There’s more of a code. There's
‘more stuffto do, like upstate New York you could get groceries sent in
from the street, you could have a guitar, a typewriter, you know,
cigarettes, whatever.

Eric King: What?!
David Campbell: Yeah, it doesn't sound bad.
Eric King: Good for the.

David Campbell: Rikers, you don't have any of that. Unlike pre-rial
detention, which s like, “Well, 1 got a court date next week, maybe Ill gt
out,” or “I'm already invested in the 20 years I think 'm going to do,”
when you're in ity time,” its like, “Well, I only have eight months, but
god fucking damn it, got nothing to do. 1 mean, T had friend:
had served serious time in state prison, mostly, you know, in their youth,
and alot of them say things like, “This time is going slower than the
decade 1 did when I was a young man. This is just insufferable.” P've never
been incarcerated anywhere else, but, anyway, that’s a long answer to
your short question. There are important cultural and psychological
differences. I don't know if there’s a big difference in terms of comfort
level, but, yeah, culturally it’s a big difference.

e that

Alissa Azar: think somethinga ot of people dor't realize unil they go
through the experience themselves is how much stress and anxiety and
just the feelings that come with what you experience upon being indicted,
and I'm curious how you both handled your prosecution and

your defense and that time period leading up into, you know, before you
ot locked up.

Eric King: I'll go first on this one. I've been indicted twice. The first one [
was bouncing around houses trying to hide from the feds. They found me,
arrested me outside my friend’s apartment. 1 did 16 months of pre-trial
detention. I was inside pre-trial. I's scary. I€’s scary as shit, because you
don’t have resources to fight your case when you're inside. You have no
idea when stuff's going to happen, and your lawyers are not answering
their phones, they are not helping you, because they're so swamped. The
‘public defender system in the feds is so overwhelmed, like these people
care, but they can’t do anything. It's mentally exhausting, and it wears you

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out. People end up wanting to take plea deals that are horrendous because
they're just so tired.

Twas at CCA, the private pre-trial facility. It's the worst food you've ever
had in your life. Worst bed you've ever had in your life. Most expensive
phone calls. Commissary, $5 for a bag of shitty-ass Keefe [commissary
company).

‘David Campbell: This is crazy.

‘Eric King: That was brutal. The second time I was indicted, I was inside the
feds. Twas stillin prison, so 'm having to fight this case from the
shoe now for assaulting this officer, surrounded by this officer’s

comrades. Theyre stealing mail, interrupting legal calls, interrupting legal
visits. I got put on a full communication ban for a couple years. I can’t
even talk to my wie and kids about shit. They do this on purpose, of
course, to destroy our spirits and to make their job asier. They told me.
this. They said, “If you plead guilty right now, we'll gt you out. We'll get
you out of this. We'll get you to your next spot.” The only plea deal they
offered was 20 years. The next spot would have been 20 years in the
supermax and ADX. If you refuse, and you fight your case, and take it to
trial, they make it as hard as possible. I think it's something like 96% of
people in the feds take a plea deal, and of the four that go to trial 96% lose,
because they make it so insurmountable to wage a real fight for yourself

Twas one of the lucky few that won a trial against the feds, but i’s
exhausting,it's seary, it's sad. You feel hopeless at times. If you make it
out on the other side, you feel really blessed.

‘David Campbel: Can I ask a quick rebound question on that? Which was
harder for you,if you had to pick one? The first indictment when you were
still free, your first indictment before you've been away, and you're
wondering like... Because you're facing significant amounts of time for
both, right?

Eric King: 30 and 20.
‘David Campbell: And then, the other 20, you're already in, you're close to
the end of your bid, I think you're at the three quarters mark? You're in

the shoe, that kind of sucks, but you're like, “All right, I got this number of

B g thecages
daysleft, whatever, and I'm out of here.”
Eric King: The second one.
David Campbell: The second one was harder?

Eric King: Because I've got a future now. I've got my wife. I got kids. 1 got a
job lined up. I've got plans to get out. Now all of a sudden they're saying,
“Well, we'd actually like to give you 20 more years.” Two times in the feds
is s0 hard. T wasn't just like, “Well, I got this many days.” It was, “I hope T
‘make it to tomorrow.” It was a fucking nightmare, the second one. The
first one, 1knew I was going to prison. T chose it

David Campbell: Right. Yeah. At a certain point, you're just like, “All right
Cool. This is the path I'm on. got to put my seat belt on and roll withit.”
never had a second indictment or anything like that, but there was a
‘moment during Covid, because the year that I did was Covid year. I was in
for four months when Covid hit, and there was a moment where people
were getting out en masse, and I wasn't one of them. I was in constant
communication my lawyer who's putting pressure on the DA, Mayor's
office, DOC. T had call-in campaigns. It looked like I was maybe getting
out, and then at a moment it became clear that it just wasn't going to
happen, and so 1 had to remake my peace. “All ight. Cool. So ' getting
outin October.” Again, I didn't do that much time in the big picture, but
just know that feeling of like, “Okay, I have this date, I can make i there..
Oh, wait. I could be out of here tomorrow?”

Eric King: The carrot. They dangled it. The hope.

David Campbell: s very difficult to manage. 1 think, (o tie that i
response to the initial question about handling the indictment, handling
the case. For me, because I had plans that I was really very much looking
forward to right at the time of my arrest. I was already going to move out
of the states. T was ina relationship that I was looking to take to the next
level. Thad alot of plans, things I was very much looking forward to. And
then this kind of happened, and it’s kind of ike, well, T chose to go out
there, but also I didn’t expect it to go this way. I spent a lot of time fe
very sorry for myself. 1 was super anxious. I was super stressed. I was
drinking way too much, smoking way too much weed. I didn’t know what
else to do. 1 was trying to stay motivated and productive, because I

ing

g theages 1
realized that that was a good sort of defense against it, but at a certain
point you just don't have the energy. I could draw alist of the things in my
life that I elt like were like crumbling before me, and that was harder in a
ot of ways than really even just being in there and going through it,
because it's so uncertain.

It just feels so nefarious, being in the hands of
shitty food while you all wear monochromatic uniforms. It's like, “All
right. Well, this sucks and looks like the real world in The Matrix or
something. 1t's fun.” It feels so malicious when people are targeting you,
ereating things on paper that are blatantly false and really nasty and could
have a huge impact on your life. It feels like, “This is fucked up. How do
these people sleep?”

‘Eric King: How do these people sleep?

‘David Campbell: That's a complicated question. Some of them are just
straight psychopaths, but alot of them see it very differently.

‘The time that I was watching my case kind of draw to a close and
increasingly becoming aware that it would probably end in incarceration
was super hard, and in some ways harder than my time actually in. One
thing that was helpful is working with a great radical therapist who never
asked me fora dime, treated me out of solidarity alone, had worked with
other incarcerated people. What was really helpful was: Write down
everything you're worried about losing, Write down every bad thing that
could happen if you go away. On an index card write down every neutral
thing that could happen, and every good thing that could happen. And
then we're going to lay them out in order, and we're going to flip them
over, and take some notes and build those up a litle bit. still have that
deck of index cards where from worst to best i’s things that

could happen if go away. In October I will have been out for four years. T
picked that up and looked at it the other day, and it seems surreal,

‘Eric King: You've been out for four years?

‘David Campbell: Almost, yeah, in October.

‘Eric King: Time gets real weird when you're inside. When think of you, I
remenmber when I heard about your situation in the ABC newsletter, and

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that feels like goddamn yesterday. It does not feel like four years ago.
‘That's erazy. Good for you.

David Campbell: ' glad to be here.

‘Alissa Azar: Ifat all, how did your experiences inside inform your radical
polities? How, ifat all, has it changed from before and after? I don’t know
ifyou have any examples or specific issues you could use as an example.

Eric King: When I got locked up, I considered myself an Alfredo Bonanno
insurrectionist type anarchist. There was a level of pedanticism to .

David Campbell: 1 love the specificity of that, I'm sorry. Like, “What are
your beliefs?” “Well, 'm an Alfredo Bonanno insurrectionary anarchist.”

Eric King: As I said, very pedantic. We were up our own asses thinking we
understood exactly how to topple this system, and it was through political
direct action and violence and all this jazz. That was the foundation of my
anarchism, It was based on toppling that system as opposed to the system
in here (pointing to his head). When 1 got locked up, over the years people
showered me in books and articles, when Iwas allowed to get them, and.
‘youstart developing broader scope of how you view hierarchy, and how
you view power, domination. I got to see the worst of the worst. For real,
got to meet people that were held in 24-hour lockdown for 20 years. They
can’t resist that way. So, how can we resist? What does resistance mean,
when they take away everything you have? That helped really to change
‘me, because it modified my anarchism and my radicalism to be about
kindness. It changed it to where, instead of wanting to tear things down, T
wanted to build things up. 1 want to build a community around me to
where the people practice mutual aid, practice solidarity, practice looking
out for each other, because people did that for me, and I did that inside
prison, t0o. I really tried to look out for those around me, whether they
wwere picces of shit or not, because I don’t want to be an additional chain.
don’t want to be another chain wrapped around your fucking neck.

My wife really helped me understand radical vulnerability, tha
tofeel. If you're just saying this shit's easy and it doesn’t hurt, then
prison’s not that bad. It's okay to let people know that you are hurting and
to open your heart up to them to help you emotionally and physically.
‘When 1did that, it allowed me to be there for people that way. It allowed

's okay

g theages S
me to start sceing struggles differently. So, my anarchism and my
radicalism now is: 1 don’t ever want to be someone’s warden. I don’t ever
want to be that prison guard saying, “You can't have this. You can’t do
that. You can’t say this.” I want to be someone that people can talk to, be
open with, someone that is there to help and wants to build the
communities that are so strong we don’t need government. We don't need
their bullshit, because we take care of we. The old Black dudes always
used to say—what did they say?—“We got we.” We all we got. We're it If
we're not going to look out for each other, who else is? That's how my
radicalism developed into: I want to be able to cry with you and help you
when you're erying, and let’s see what we can't do together. That's what
prison did to me, or what I allowed myself to develop into while inside.

‘David Campbell: That was an ineredible answer with a lot of really, really
great detail and texture to it. 1 don’t really know how to follow that up. 1
wasn't really that involved in the anarchist or antifascist scene when I got
arrested. I was doing alittle bit here and there. Since 2016 I had been in
anarehist circles. Anti-fascism is just a staple of left politics in general,
especially anarchism. Anti-fascism, are you out of your mind? Of course.
Afier Trump came to power, and there’s lot of people being like, “Yeah,
man. Somebody should really do something.” It sounds over
but 'min a position where I know where I can meet like-minded people
who are probably going to be down to take action. 1 know what the risks
are. Ithink I know why this is necessary. I'm also aware that its not the
only thing, When I say, “it” and “this,” I mean radical anti-fascist action
that entails,largely, surveilling or confronting fascists, making it
mpossible for them to organize and have a public life. That seems like no
big deal. That's not the only way to do t, but I think it's important. On the
one hand, it’s quite glamorized. On the other hand, a lot of people don’t
want to touch it because it's like, man, it could get gnarly real fast. It can.
1t did for me. 1 got unlucky and ended up going away for it. But at the
time, 1 wasn't super involved, and I was never a person who put their
polities at the center of their world-view. I still wouldn’t consider myself
that way. I know what my polities are, I think, and I'm still open to
discovering more about who I am in terms of my political worldview.
have a lot of different things.

My reading list, the books that I wanted to read when I was in, was all over
the map. T even got a letter from some random person who was like, °1
really appreciate that you weren't just like, T want to read Assata Shakur's

o g thecages
biography and Alfred Bonanno.” It wasn't all radieal theory books. It was.
alot of random stuffthat I enjoy, because, like most people, I think a
person who has a lot of different interests and a lot of different

Eric King: 1 was more mentally exhausted towards year three through
nine getting theory books,like radical books. 1 wanted to get political
prisoner books. 1 like those books, but when it's all theory coming in, T was
like, “Oh my God, can Ijust read about wizards?”

David Campbelk: [ want to read about wizards, yeah.

Eric King: Anything! Please.

David Campbell: At a certain point, I was
‘Baldacei, grocery store novelists... “Thi

ing up the, like, David
i great. This is just what I need.”

To talk about how it changed kind of my politics, it definitely made me
think about abolition. Prison abolition, police abolition, they're the same
thing, right, two sides of the same thing. Never having been even in the
drunk tank before, Pm discovering...

Eric King: Wow!

David Campbell: Yeah, 1 mean I've done a lot of dumb shit in my life, and
Tve generally got away with it. A big part of it is just white privilege. The
dumb shit that I did when I was very young could get someone sent away,
ifthey’re coming from a position where they're in an over-policed
community or something, almost certainly. I never dealt with that, and
then here T am in jail. Now I'm sceing what this is really like. Abolition,
like anti-fascism for me, it a plank of anarchism. Obviously, sure one day
we want to get there, but I hadn't really thought about it much. Now here
Tam, and Pm like, “Wow, this is so dumb and doesn’t work, and we could
definitely be doing this in another way, in a better way.”

This s right at the time that this sort of discourse enters the m
because of the George Floyd Rebellion going on. There's a lot of writing,
there’s a lot of dialogue about it in the public sphere. I'm far from having.
everything worked out in terms of being an abolitionist, but that is
something that I can unhesitatingly say now. It also made me a lot more
sympathetic to the label of eriminal or felon and much more skeptical of

oty theges 7
cops and prisons in general. 've never liked cops, but just, like, man... T've.
been through t..

‘Eric King: I've never been more sure of anything in my life than that
prisons aren’t what we need. Prison helped me learn that concretely.

‘David Campbell: That's an important thing, too. You talked about so much
good stuff. We would need another talk, because I'd really like to respond
toall your points. I'm so glad that you were able to develop, you know,
radical empathy and vulnerability in there, because that's super hard. Its
astrength, but it's not always feasible. In some situations, s not the right
move. 1€’ a sk to show that you're emoting, right? I feel like I learned a
ot about myselfin jail, and I think it’s astrength to be able to say that. For
you, t0o, Eric, it doesn’t mean that it’s working, it means that we made
something out of it 1don't think it proves anything about incarcerating.
people...

Eric King: Not

‘David Campbell: I had universal basic income, I'd be able to do the same
amount of soul-searching, There's no need to lock people up. Personally, 1
worked some shit out about who I am that is good for me. Also, personally,
Twas able to foeus on writing and translating and have been able to build a
bit of a profile as a writer and translator since I got out. All those were
things that I seized my time to do, because I knew I was going to do this
chunk of time, which wasn't that long, planning on moving forward when
Igot out, and knowing that I have a record now, you know, I can't get
involved in anything that could carry risk again. For me, the political work
that 1do is now mostly writing stuff. It could be me writing an article o
whatever, or it could be me writing to political prisoners, because it's a
zero risk way o stay involved. evolved in a lot of ways, and I think it
would be erazy if you didn't

Alissa Azar: 1 do have a follow-up question for Ericafier your last
response, I was curious how it was being able to process cmotions
s, he struggle between expressing yourselfopenly or keeping things
t0 yourself? From your answer it sounds like you were able to express
yourself openly, but P'm just curious about the dynamics of that, and how
casy or difficult that was with the community that you had?

g hecages
Eric King: 1 don't want it to seem like it just happened, or that yesterday T
was this way, but today I'm this way. This was a hard process. I went into
prison with a lot of bullshit toxic machismo. 1 went into prison feeling like
everything bad, basically: violence was the answer, fighting is the answer,
stabbing is the answer, bombs are the answer. That reflected on what I
wwrote peaple about, too. I must have been so boring to write to my first
vear or two, because I was almost role-playing being a revolutionary. This
s what I thought, so this is what I now need to project into the world,

It was just this process of, do you want people to see the fact that you're
human, or do you want them to see you as an object? Do you want to be
Eric King with fears and anxiety and hopes and dreams, or do you want to.
be political prisoner Eric King? For a lot of people, 1 was, maybe even still
am, political prisoner Eric: Eric who suffered, Lric who was locked up a lot,
Eric who was attacked, Eric who fought, as opposed to Eic who still cries
when someone’s nice to them, Eric who has a hard time breathing around
wwhite men with tattaos—speaking as one—because those are the people
who might be about to stab me, Eric wha loves being silly and joking at all
times.

When we started le

i those guards down, it started with poetry, like,
write it down. I can’t always say it, so write it. When that started
happening, I got such positive feedback. Then I started feeling safe, and if 1
feel safe, then T can open up and be vulnerable with people writing me. T
never, except for a few people like my homie, Randy, in ADX, I never
showed that to the folks inside. I'm not going to let one of these
‘motherfuckers see me crying or being vulnerable or jealous or insecure or
sily. No, Im not showing them that, because they will, like we were kind
of talking about earlier, they will sce that shit as weakness. They will latch
onto that, and motherfuckers do that shit all the time, where they'll
listen, they’ll ear-hustle your conversations with your partners, and then
use that information against you, or 10 try to pUmp you up, try to gas you
up. The guards do it too. The guards who read our letters, they would
come to me and mock me with things about my wife. They would mock
her mental health. They would mock my vulnerability.

But our power, through that vulnerability, I gained a power to not g
shit what these bigots say or these idiots say. My community was mine.
16 not yours. Prison doesn’t own this. Prison doesn’t get take hold of my
community. Through those people—people like Josh or Badger or Brian,

g theages 19
people like Jules and these other cats that really, really reached out to me
—Igot to be human to them, and that allowed me to be human when I got
released. It's hard, and it’s sill a project. I sometimes stll am shitty, but
it's a project, like every day it's how can I be better today than I was
yesterday or kinder or softer? Man, I ramble.

Alissa Azar: You're good! This s all great.
David Campbelk: 1€’ a good answer.

Alissa Azar: Really appreciate you being vulnerable right now and sharing
this with us.

‘Eric King: Thanks.

Alissa Azar: Could cither or both of you maybe expand a lttle bit on the
ways in which race and racism functioned in the facilities that you were in
and your experiences with that?

‘David Campbell: Rikers is not racially segregated. It is just a mingling of
people from all backgrounds. I mean, maybe that’s not surprising. Is New
York City. 1don't know if Rikers was ever racially segregated, probably at
some point, because, oh, geer, this is America, but I have no knowledge of
if there was ever a policy of segregation that ended. There’s some
cliquishness, but it often seems to be based on other factors, like gang
affiliation. For Spanish speaking or also non-Spanish speaking but like of
Latin origin people, i’s this kind of fluid thing, where it’slike, if you look.
really Puerto Rican but don't speak Spanish, are you going to be in the
Puerto Rican section or not? When I say seetion, people choose to bunk
together. Like, there’s an available bed there. T want to take that bed next
t0 you, because you're also a member of ‘X’ group. There’s some of that.

White people tended to be cliquier. Alot of people notice that. People of
color that Ttalked to in there would be like, “Yeah, you know, I've been
coming to Rikers for along time, and it’s just like three or four white
dudes, and they tend to put their beds together, you know...”

‘Eric King: What do you mean, “put their beds together?” You guys don't
have cells in your pods?

B g thecages
David Campbell: No, we were in dorms the whole time, 50 and 60 bed
dorms. Again, we have very different experiences, but my first couple of
‘months I was like, “I think am going insane.” There's no privacy. There's
no quiet. There's nothing, You're in a fucking basketball court full of
dudes. That'sit. Everything you do, every time you fart, every time you
get on the phone, somebody’s watching it, somebody’s commenting on it
10s erazy. Twas trying to find a way to get a cell. People were like, “Oh
ah, it’s casy! Just fuck somebody upt” I was like, “Yeah, okay, great. Il
just go up to somebody and fuck them up, that sounds like a great idea...”
But I got that advice from a lot of people, if it gives you any idea how
dumb shit is in there.

But racially, it’s very integrated at the official level. Socially, there's people
who just want to hang out with their own kind or whatever.

Eric King: Would you guys make meals together?

David Campbell: Yeah! Totally. There's no restriction on that at all. I mean,
just because, statistically, there are very few white people in there, and
also because Iwas very wary of seeming like a guy who preferred to hang
out with white people, most of my friends were people of color, just
because it’s like 90 plus percent of the people incarcerated at Rikers. But
also 1 had a couple friends who were white guys, and I met up with one of
them here. He's an Irish guy, I met up with him in Dublin in February. 1t’s
great to see him. But, you know, at a certain point I was bunking next to
him, and then there was this guy from Georgia—not the state, the country
—who was bunking next to him, because he showed up and didn't speak
any English. Whatever, they hit it off. But I realized at a certain point that
we had this white section of three dudes. It wasn't like that, like people
weren't upset about i

But in other dorms you would see some shitty scumbag trying o be cool
with everyone but also saying some pretty racist shit, white dudes that
put their bunks together, another white dude shows up, and there’s an
empty bunk, and he’s like, “Ob, yeah. Yeah, I'm going there.”

Eric King: [Mockingly) “C'mon, brother!”

David Campbell: That has a lot to do with internalized white supremacy
and feeling, “Wow, we're not the ones in charge here... Wow, we're gonna

oty theages 2
get it.” Feeling insecure. Whatever. But, yeah, there’s no res:
who you work out with, who you eat with, who you bunk with. There was
aguy, there was another white dude two bunks over, when I was going.
home, and the dude in the bunk between us was also a white dude who
went home, and the other guy was trying to give that bunk to another
white dude who just showed up, and I was like, “No, dude. We're giving it
t0 the Jamaican dude, because he'’s been here for six months, and he's
super cool. We're not doing the white section thing. He's going to get that
bunk” I was going home in a couple weeks. I had no real horse in the race.
But you can kind of break it up that way. It's very social, its not
institutional, and it's pretty flexible.

What about where where you were? I mean, you were in a lot of different
places.

‘Eric King: That s all wild intere:
this. Yeah, we've talked about
interesting.

ing by the way. Me and you talked about
off camera a lot. just find it so

In the feds it’s the exact opposite from the ground to the top. You are not
doing these things that David just deseribed. 1's enforced by violence. At a
low security, it's going to be mostly social violence. You're gonna get
ostracized or shit-talked or gossiped on. That's all going to be white collar
eriminals or rats either way. Once you get into the medium penitentiary,
that level, you will not do that, and the reason you will not is because your
teeth will get kicked in. T would have loved to have had a Black or a “paisa”
celly. Twas friends with all those dudes, but “your people” will kick your
fucking head off. P've seen it. You're not making cups of coffee and sharing.
them with other races. You're not working out with other races. You're
100% not living with one, yowll get... That's it. You won't get into that cell
You won't make it to bed. That's something I always hated.

One of the ways you could get around some of this in the feds is if you're
gambling. You can play cards and games with other races, because it's a
gamble. I’ a money-making thing. I would play Serabble 24/7, and
“paisas,” Blacks, GD's, Muslims, whoever, like, “Come on in" That was a
fun way to get around that, You're constantly playing games and cards. Or
the law library, because you're allowed to make money off other races,
basically. That's how it is. So my hustle i typing legal work, so I could
interact with other races that way. But it’s gross. It's gross, and it

B g thecages
feels like—you brought up insecurity—man, white victimhood is so real
“They're out to get us. Everyone's out to get us,” when it's really like, “You
‘guys are out to get everyone!”

David Campbell: I you ll just chilled... And not try to run everything like
dickheads in typical white supremacist fashion, maybe things would just
be better for everyone.

Eric King: In the penitentiaries, when you get up to that level, it's
everyone. It's defending territory. If this is a Surefio cell, it's staying a
Surefio celL.If the whites try to take i, it can be a war over that. Or if
there’s three TV, one of them is a white TV, and if a Black dude
take that TV or use it, that can cause a war. Not just a, “Oh, let’s fight about
it P'm talking a blood-bath over this perceived territory.

to

David Campbell: Sorry, just to jump in real quick, because I think I
understand this, even though I never done prison time, but can you
explain why that's a war? Let’s say I'm a white guy, P'm not invested in
this thing, Now there’s this beef over a phone or cell or something that
was a white phone, and now its going to be a Black phone or a Sureito
phone. Why does that cause a blood-bath? Why can’t 1 just say, “I'm not
dealing with that?”

Eric King: Great question. When you're in the penitentiary system, when
yowre at that level, you have to participate, or you will get killed or at
least fucked off bad. You cannot it out. The second you get there, you're
put on the list to put in work, and that's where you have to jump someone
to show them you're not a coward, to show them that you're about the
life. That way, when shit pops offin the future, you're not dead weight,
because people don’t want... We don’t need an extra body. You have to
prove that from the day you get there. It's called “mud-checking” If
someone takes a white TV, they've essentially said in penitentiary terms,
“White people are bitches. We don't respect the whites. We'll take
whatever we want from you.”

Ihate racism. T hate it with all my heart. 1 went to prison fighting against
it. But 1 would have to join them in that fight, or once it was over I'm
getting stabbed by those white guys 100%. 1 will not make it to chow the
next day. It's all about this domination. “No one will take nothing from us.
This is ours.” Because the state took so much from prisoners, we now do it

g theages 23
to cach other. “You're not going to take my space.” I've seen it. I've seen it
go sideways. Like a white dude was owed $40 bucks by a Texas MA, and
the Texas MA said, “No. What are you gonna do about it?” The white guy
had a choice, “ either accept that, and if 1 do aceept that I'm now a ‘bitch,”
and these other dudes are going to kill me, or I make an example of this
cat.” They ended up cutting that dude’s stomach open and pulling his
intestines out. That guy’s in ADX for the rest of his lfe.

‘David Campbell: That seems like a bit of an overreaction over $40.1do
understand you have to defend your name, but, Jesus, I mean, you could
just cut his stomach up like normal..

‘Eric King: It could have just been a casual stabbing, but he wanted to make
a point toall the races, “You will not disrespect the whites.” That's really
how it is. [Shudders.] I'm so happy I'm not in prison anymore.

‘David Campbell: Again, just got to ask, because you've been toalot of
different security levels and facilties, and I've been to.a couple different
buildings on one island. But, because Rikers is such a crossroad of
incarceration, there’s people who've done time all over the place, right?
Because t's New York, a ot of people move there from elsewhere, a lot of
people are just passing through and they get caught up, whatever. And,
because the system doesn't work, you may well have done time in another
state before you moved to New York, and then you get arrested for
something else. You meet people who've done time in a lot of different
places, and I met a few people who told me stories of racal soldarity or
solidarity across raciallines in state and federal facilites. | met a guy who
said when he was in Arizona, he was in the AB, because he didn't have a
choice. He's kind of a sketchy guy. I didn't know if he was just saying that
for my benelit. Ayran Brotherhaod, if you're listening and you don't know
what AB is. He said he was an Aryan Brotherhood when he was in prison
in Arizona, and he said AB and the Bloods stuck it up together. They went
onstrike together and refused to work over—I can't remember what the
grievance was. But, yeah, I heard a couple stories like that from other
jurisdictions,security level systems, yeah. don't know, i it something
You've ever heard of or scen?

‘Eric King: By the way, Arizona ABs are not the same as Federal ABs. That
dude seems like... 1 don't know.

B g thecages
David Campbell: A lot of people make shit up. A lot of people lic.

Eric King: But that stuff can happen when its a system-wide thing Let's
say, in the shoe at USP Lee—that's a penitentiary in Virginia, USP Robert
E. Lee. In the shoe, the kitchen workers cut our trays in half, to where
everything we were getting, they gave us half of it, because someone back
in the shoe had wrote on the tray, like “Kitchen workers are bitches” o
something, They revolted against us back in the shoe. The shoe lieutenant
wwas not doing nothing about it. They don’t care. In that shoe you don't
have radios. You don’t have books. You don't have magazines. You don't
have newspapers, and you don’t have commissary. So, when your back's
against the wall... We planned a strike interracially there, because it was.
an everyone thing, and we needed everyone. Those are the situations
where crossing racial bounds is “allowed,” but even then, there’s a fine
line. There's a very delicate line, to where if it seems as if you're playing
t00 hard for them, *your people” will bring you back down to earth.

Tended up getting crushed by the cops for that, for that little small strike.
‘They don't like racial solidarity either. They do everything to make sure
that it doesn’t happen.

David Campbelk: They hate i
Alissa Azar: Absolutely.
David Campbell: They hate it

Eric King: They hate nothing more than racial solidarity in prison. I helped
the Muslims when 1 was at Florence medium. They started doing some.
stuff, 5o rode with them. The cops tried to get me jumped all the time.
‘They'd go out of their way to whisper in other white dudes’ ears like,

“Your guys loves ‘Sand n-words” Your guy's an ‘n-lover,” o instigate
violence, because, if we're together, they're not shit.

Alissa Azar: Absolutely. They know the collective power that's held.

‘With that kind of segregation, did it ever feel alienating being an anti
fascist political prisoner? In those situations, how did you manage that?

Eric King: From my perspective, every day of my life was alienating, T've,

g teages 3
got “antifa” tattooed on my face, and people know what that shit is. They
know. Not only do you feel isolated from people, it's lonely. You don’t
have no one to talk to. You have no one. Not a single white guy in that
prison will openly agree with anything you say. It's violent. It's dangerous.
Igotina lot of fights. Guards, prisoners. This shit, you're not above it
because you're a political prisoner, because what you don't want to be is a
political victim. I was lonely all the time. Ifit wasn't for letters... I's hard
to even put into words, because you're isolated as fuck, and no one cares.
Not a single white dude in that prison cares that you're lonely, because
you can’t talk about how much you hate Trump or that transgender
people are actually people. When it started getting later in my bid, like
into the shoes, well, now it's all by mysel, literally. The only people I have
contact with are the guards. They hate everything you stand for, so
they're tearing up your cell, throwing away your pictures, throwing away
your mail. 1 got scars on my head. T show it all the time. A guard dumped
me on my head when 1 was handeuffed behind my back. They did that
because of the resistance, because of anti- fascism refusing to play into
their bullshit

Itook a hard line when first came in the feds that we're not losing who
we are, and you can pay the price. It's not guaranteed, but if 1 had said,
“I'm anti-fascist.” in the penitentiaries, [ would have had to stand on that,
and 1 would have got stabbed or someone else would have, but instead T
got jumped off that yard. The white Nazis said, “You can't be here.” I said,
“Yes, 1 can.” And they said, “Okay.” And then the guard set you up for
them to jump you. That's what happened at the penitentiary. It's scary,
and it's lonely, and that's why we need prisoner support, because people
inside can be very isolated.

Alissa Azar: Absolutely.

‘David Campbell: Yeah. That's the stuff T was trying to avoid. One of the
things I was hoping to achieve in taking the plea that 1 did for a shorter
amount of time, like a comparatively short amount of time compared to
what I could have gotten if go on trial, mandatory minimum, I would
have gone to the upstate prison system.

‘Eric King: What was your mandatory? Three?
‘David Campbell: Three and a halfon the top charge. s maximum of 15.

3 g thecages
‘mean it’s a really ridiculous statute. I could have done sometime upstate.
‘There were some Proud Boys who got hit with the same charge and blew
iots and got four a few months before me. That was a factor.
Also, the Manhattan DA's office, I was like, “Okay, i’s pretty clear they're
trying to do a ‘both sides’ thing,” and 'm the only guy they have on the
left right now, so maybe Il just cut my losses. 1 wanted to avoid going
upstate, because from all the research I was doing, from what litle I knew,
it seemed like upstate, among other things, they re more redneck-y,
they're more Trump-y, they're more cousins and in-laws-y, and they will
absolutely fuck you up. This is something that we talked about that I was
seeking confirmation of from guys who knew more about life upstate once
Igot in, right? They were mostly like, “Yeah, dude.”

‘Things are much less comfortable here and much noisier. There’s more
people addicted to hard drugs who don’t understand that you can’t just go
around farting in front of people all the time. When I say there’s more of a
prison code, 1 get the impression in the feds or in the upstate system... I's
alittle more heetic in jail. Like, you can get stabbed over that in prison
pretty easy, I have the i ides the fact that i ier and
less comfortable in jail, a guy like me, you know, 1 had a case that got some
‘publicity, 'm an anti-fascist, 1 was accused of attacking this old man or
whatever. They would know that, and they would set you up to get fucked.
up.Tjust didn't want to deal with that. From what I understand, the Nazis,
the Aryan Brotherhood, and other white supremacist gangs are not super
strong in the New York state prison system. I've heard that from a bunch
of people, 1don’t know how true that is.

Eric King: I've also heard that.
David Campbell: Which good. Fuck ‘em.
Eric King: Yeah. Eat shit.

David Campbell: They are not on Rikers. have a friend, a fellow a
who did some time on Rikers n 2016, He was falsely accused by a gang.
intelligence officer of being in the AB, and he said, “I'm aware of 12 of you
on the island.” s very telling. At any given moment there’s thousands of
people, I mean the population varies from one year to the next, but 12
people are in the AB. They don't advertise that shit, and they can’t. 1 had
the cop that I worked under, the CO that I worked under in the kitchen

oty theages 27
who, when 1 first started, asked me to roll up my sleeves, so that he could
make sure 1 didn’t have any Nazi tattoos, because he's like, “You got the
look.” (Laughter.] You know I meet the eriteria, like the Nazis would have
been very like [in mock German accent], "Oh, yes, look at this big blonde
head. Yes.”

‘Alissa Azar: What would have happened if you rolled up your sleeve and
there was something?

‘David Campbell: He probably would have told me, “I don’t want you
working for me”

‘Eric King: In your jail... In the feds, certain races “own” jobs as well, like in
the kitchen the Mexicans will have the meat, the Blacks will have the
cheese. Tassume by the way you're shaking your head that that is not the
situs

‘David Campbel: That is not the case. Not the case. I even had a dude.. |
was making grilled cheeses one day, which is awesome, because, I don't
know what kind of food you guys got, but we did not get grilled cheeses.
Holy shit. You prepare the food for the court holding cells, right, so you're
siting there mass producing, you know, you're fucking assembly ining
two slices of American cheese and two slices of bread to put in a plastic
baggy. You got piles of these, right? Man, they let you use one of the ovens.
They're not supposed to, but they look the other way. Put some of those
ona sheet with some fake butter, put them in there. Ineredible. T used to
make those all time and just give them away. I'm telling you, I would
make a bunch of these and just give them away to everybody. This one
guy Tknow from the yard, I don't really know him, he’s like an Italian guy,
and he sees me loading these into the oven, and he’s like, “Hook a white
brother up with a grilled cheese.” I was like, “Don’t play that shit with
me” I swear to God, he looks at me and he goes, “What? P'm white.”
Because he was kind of like, you know, Mediterrancan looking, 1 was Il
“That's not what I mean.” [Laughter all around.] “What I mean islike,
don't make it thing. P'm going to give these to everyone.” Theres no
racial control of ingredients and stations and stuff.

‘Alissa Azar: When you were in there, did you meet any other political
prisoners?

B g thecages
David Campbell: I did not. I think Eric will have probably a much more.
interesting response to that. But I did not, and it was kind of a bummer.
Yeah. I kind of wish I had. I met some people... No, I didn't even meet any
George Floyd Uprising prisoners, which I was stoked for. I talked about
this some in Rattling the Cages. 1 was puiting out the word with people
that I worked with in the kitchen and that I saw at the yard who were in
other housing units. I was like, If you get anybody who's coming i for
George Floyd related stuff, let me know. I got a care package for them.” I
really wanted it to happen, but it,yeah, didn’t happen. 1 mean George
Floyd popped off four months before the end of my sentence, s0 not a ton
of time for all the cases that were actually being prosecuted... They were
the precinct, you know, they weren't going to
Rikers. But 1 met a guy who claims to have gone out “rioting with antifa ”
ed up for something else. He was picked up for heroin or
something later. But he was like, “Yeah, I went out rioting with antifa.
have abunch of coats that I want to sell when 1 get out.”

No real political prisoners. I met a lot of politically conscious people. That
was super cool. It was cool to meet and be understood by and just get that
low-level respect, which is very nice to have, because you feel like you're
insuch an alien world, from politically conscious people, jail people,
prison people, working class people of color primarily, who understand.
what's up. That was comforting in a way. It wouldn’t change anything if 1
hadn’t gotten that for me, but it's nice to meet someone who's ike.. You
know, 1 met this old guy who was like, “Oh, you know, when Assata
‘Shakur was on the run, she stayed at my aunt’s house.” That's fucking
cool. P glad you told me that. He told me that, because he saw me
reading Assata Shakur's autobiography. I met a guy with a huge Los
Macheteros tattoo on his arm, a Puerto Rican radical group. We used to
talk alot in the kitchen. I met a lot of people who had radical sympathies
and had some sort of political consciousness and kind of understood
where I was coming from. That was cool, but I didn’t meet anybody who.
was doing time for political stuff

Alissa Azar: Absolutely. What about you, Eric? Did you encounter any.
other political prisoners in your your time?

Eric King: 1 was cellies with one of our elders. 1don't really even want to
talk about that right now because of other stuff, but I met a lot of political
prisoners that weren't left-wing political prisoners.

ity theages 29
‘David Campbell: Well, that's interesting. I thought you were going to say
right wing.

‘Eric King: The Jihadi dudes... | met Richard Reed, the shoe bomber. I met
different big name terrorist dudes from there and had really interesting
conversations with them. The way that they stand on their ethies, the way
that they do not... How do I how I put it? They are not apologetic. They
believe in their cause, and they are willing to talk about it, stand on it.
found those dudes really interesting.

Talso met people that I don't know if we count them as political prisoners,
but their commaunities do. 1 met Larry Hoover, the head of the GDs.

‘David Campbell: What s that?

‘Eric King: Gangster 50 years. He is
considered a political prisoner by people in Chicago and people who are
familiar with that gang, 1 met Jeff Tort, he was a bodyguard for Martin
Luther King Jr. Now he's in his 80s because he tried buying missiles from
Gaddafi. e don’t necessarily consider them political prisoners, but they
are leaders and political leaders
interesting to talk to, because they have so much experience, and they've

isciples. He's been in prison fo

read every book I've ever read. They've been down for 50 years, so they
have alot of wisdom and input, even if it’s not like, I don’t know, fucking
Emma Goldman kind of input, it's still input from their communities, and
that's more valuable to me at this point in my life

Alissa Azar: What were some of the relations between people that were
locked up and the guards? Hov did the prisoners refer to themselves?
What terms were used? What were those dynamics? ' sure you guys are
going to have varying experiences.

‘David Campbell: T can start on this, I mean, we've already touched on
terminology, how it varies between state and federal prisons, and in my
experience in jail, | can't say this is true of alljails, but in terms of what
yourefer to yourselfas,
to my understanding in state and federal prisons, but, where I was, some
guys who had been upstate would evoke that distinetion, but they kind of
realized it was alost cause on fying as a
conviet. People were like, “Okay, but you're locked up, right?” You're not a

inmate’is a very strong word. It's really an insult

ers. You can't go around idents

o g thecages
€O, 50 the only other thing you could be is an inmate.

‘The thing that I think is maybe more specific to local jail facilities is
there’s quite alot of crossover in terms of neighborhood ties, even family
ties, and sometimes gang ties between the prisoners and staff. A lot of th
stuffon Rikers. Some official people have looked into this stuff and been
like, “Oh yeah, it’s a real problem.” There’s a lot of people who have family
ties, neighborhood ties, or again gang affiliation on Rikers in different
color uniforms. Sometimes there’s a lttle fluidity in the rule about not
being too ‘buddy-buddy’ with the cops. There’s definitely stuff that will
sound alarm bells for people, that would be a red flag. You spend too much
time talking to a cop, or you're spending time alone speaking in a language
that other people don’t understand to a cop in front of other people.

Iwas trying to practice French in there. Believe it or not, I was shocked I
couldn't find any other prisoners who spoke French fluently. I was
surprised. There’s a lot of people who spoke French Creole, Haitian guys.
But Haitian Creole, it’s just not the same. I don’t speak that language. A
couple other French Creole languages, but the only peaple I met that
spoke French there were a couple West Affican guards. They saw me
reading books in French, and they try to talk to me in French. “Yeah, T
speak French. P'm reading this book right now. I can’t talk to you.”

In general, there’s kind of like, especially short term, you're getting out
soon, there’s a sense like, “You know, they're peaple, too. They're just
working this shitty job. It's a good city job. You get full benefits and
retirement in 20 years.” That’s a thing that’s been observed kind of g
backis that most of the guards on
right?

g
ikers are working class people of color,

Eric King: That's tricky situation

David Campbell: 1 mean, everybody wants a decent job that’s not going to
ippear. Especially if you read o listen to interviews with former CO's,
they will tell you, “Listen, 1 grew up in the projects. It's the same
architects. Its the same people. P'm not seared to walk through here,
while a lot of people are, and, frankly, the pay and the benefits are not
bad. I started at 22.1 finish at 42. 1’ like being a cop or in the military in
terms of that one straight shot, two decades, you're done, you cash in all
your chips, and you do something else.” A lot of people, that's their

g theages 3
‘mentality. So, people who are getting locked up from the same
neighborhoods as them for, you know, dealing small amounts of drugs or
having a gun in a neighborhood where everyone has a gun, some of them
have a very developed prisoner code sort of mentality, where it’s us and
them, cops versus criminals, which I'm more partial to. But there’s
definitely alot of crossover, where it's like, “That's my cousin’s sister-in.
law, and I see her at the barbecue every year, and she used to work in a
warehouse, and she started doing this because she wanted a decent job.”
‘That's the shit you kind of hear floating around at Rikers, which I think
makes it a little distinet from a lot of other prisons. 1 don't know how it
stacks up against jails, but I would bet that a lot of local jail facilities are
more like that, I think,

‘Eric King: Where my machismo stuff hasn't faded is my intense vitriol for
all these cops. The idea or even just the thought of having a casual
conversation with one of them makes me want to puke. These bastards.
T've been chained to beds. I've been chained for hours. I've been put ina
cell with nothing in it with the air conditioner blowing as hard as it can for
weeks. 've had mail destroyed. P've had my body destroyed. When I see
people associating with these cops, 1 let those people know, “You're
playing a dangerous game.” 1 would talk about this in the shoe with

Smiles. These are not our friends. These are not our allies. These are not
our comrades. These are not our neighbors. These are people that receive
a paycheck to torture us. These are the slave owners that would ride
around on the horses with the guns. “They're just doing a job." No,
‘motherfucker. They're not. They chose this life. They chose this.

In the feds they're almost like a militarized oceupying force. They're not
our neighbors. They're not people from the block. They're peaple from all
over the country that transition in and out, all these old veterans getting
their PTSD jobs, and they are abusive. P've met two cops since 've been
down, who, if 1 was in a riot and saw them getting killed, I'd feel bad about.
Twouldn't jump in to help them. But I would maybe have empathy,
“Well, they were a pretty decent guy. Sorry. Sorry about your luck”

‘David Campbell: I fecl that. I see you speak about that, and I see that it's
coming from the heart, and it’s coming from a place of experience, and I
totally get that and respect that. Especially because P'm more partial to
drawing a pretty firm line between prisoners and CO's. I never went out of
my way to antagonize any CO's, because that didn't seem like a great idea

S g thecages
But I'm much more... Like, I don’t want to be your friend. You know, even
the guy that asked me to roll up my sleeves who was my supervisor in the
kitchen, he over time ended up being very sympathetic to a lot of things
that we were talking about. He knew about my case. He looked it up. He
wanted to learn about it. He wasn't prying. He wasn't like, asking me,
“Where's the rebel base?” He was just like, “$o why do anti-fascists care
about Black Lives Matter” when the George Floyd stuff popped, like
wanted to have that conversation. 1 was happy to have that with him, but
ina place where other people can see us chatting, and we chat for a couple.
‘minutes, and then 'm like, “I got to go over here,” because I got
something to do.

You know what? He did ask me to snitch once in a moment where it
Iooked like nobody was around, and it wasn't a big thing, it was very
‘minor, we had already built up a rapport, and I was shocked and

;ppointed that he asked me that. He wasn't petty about it afterwards.
He didn't take any of my books away. My last day was the same day as one
of his co-workers having a retirement party. He went to the retirement
party, took a piece of cake, brought it to me. Shit like that. Is a rapport.
1€ a rapport. You can have that. T'm okay with that. But I'm more partial
to the sort of world you're describing, where there’s a di n there,
right? Because we're not on the same team, Even if for you it's just a job,
well, lots of peaple have rationalized lots of bad shit by saing, “I's just
job.” It's not. 1€’ just not. You're keeping people in boxes for what a
plumber makes. I mean not that it would be better f it was alot of
‘money.

Eric King: I've got five staff assaults on my jacket, from pre-trial to getting
out.Twish T had 10. [Laughter. I wish I had 20, because the brutality of
these picces of shit in the feds...

David Campbelk: Feel that.

Eric King: .makes me shake. Alissa, you got me shaking with rage.

David Campbell: There are cops that I met in there that 1 would like to

have... They talk about “shooting a fair one.” I don’t know if that’s a thing
that..

Eric King: They don't do “fair ones,” these motherfuckers. I was supposed

oty theages 3
to have a fair one, and that’s what they do.

‘David Campbell: That's kind of an old school thing too. 1 have the
impression it's not really very common anymore, but you used to be able
t0 g0 into the pantry with the cop that you have beef with and just fight,
and then it's resolved. Whatever the issue was, we let it be after that.
There are cops there, like, man, I really wish it was a thing, and I really
wish I wasn't worried about extending my stay here, because it’s pretty
short, and I got alife to get back to, but, yeah, there are people... You're a
picce of shit. You're lording it over other people in really petty ways, and,
yeah, Twould love to punch you in the face. [Laughter.]

‘Eric King: What's the next question?

Alissa Azar: Tl start with this one. Before, you talked about how it was.
very alienating being an ant . and you touched a lttle bit on the
significance of getting letters when you were in prison. Can you talk a
little bit more in detail about what i’ like to be getting commus

from the outside world and the effects that it has when you are
situation like that?

‘Eric King: 1 did it both ways. When I first came in, I didn't have any
support. Denver ABC, ifit wasn't for them, who knows when I would have
started getting letters. I went through a period of mass amounts of letters,
and then a mail ban where I wasn't allowed letters, where they would just
send them back. I wasn't allowed mail. The difference is... How do put
this? When you get letters from people that really care about you, it can be
the best part of your week. It can be the difference between wanting to
hang up and wanting to do burpees and smile and laugh and joke. T met
my wife through letters. 1 got my job through letters. Every friend I have
right now in my life except for like four or five still in Kansas City are
people that wrote me. Josh Davidson, who I edited Rattling the Cages
with, he’s a friend from letters. He wrote me letters when I was in the shoe
at Leavenworth. These are real relationships that can be buil.

David wrote me. That's how we became friends.

‘David Campbell: 1 was just about to say that! Because I knew about your
case before I went away, I think you heard about mine while you we
but the reason we're talking today is because I started writing you after I

3 et thecges
got out, and you started texting me once you got out. I like writing letters.

Eric King: can't stress to people listening enough: You can save
someone’s life with mail. You can build a relationship that changes your
entire existence in a good way through letters. I've always encouraged
people to write my bro in ADX. 1 sent out 150 letters to him last week from
people, because that can be the difference between him feeling so alone,
s0sad, so forgotten, and feeling like, “Damn, 'm going to get out of here. T
have a future.” Please, please write prisoners. Please, for the love of God,
\write anyone. If you want names, come holler at me.

David Campbell: That's about the size of it The letters matter so much.
They're the sign of the solidarity that you're getting, There are lots of
other signs, like you have money on your books that people go out of their
way t0 put in. Your visiting calendar is always full, stuff like that. But the
s really e 1’ really hard to describe. It's one of the hardest
things to describe. 1 got, I think it was, 21 letters, a calendar, and three
books my first day in. I started erying in the hallway. Not my first day, but
the first day I got mail. I was a week in, because it takes some time to
catch up. T was like, “Man, thankfully there’s nobody there.”

ered

Iwas so moved and was so surprised by how moving it was to get abunch
of letters. People who took the time...

Eric King: Took the time! You can't accidentally send a letter. It's not like
clicking ‘like’ on the internet. You have to put in work. You're saying that
this person is worth it. You're worth that time, that work, and that means

alot. I take that seriously.

David Campbell: It could casily go the other way, and like, “It would be
casier for me in my life out here on the outside to move on and not worry
about it and not take the time.” I's mentally draining. 'm invested in this
person's life. I can’t understand a lot of things, because the world when
you're locked up s very different. Its kind of like a commitment toa
relationship. It daunting. So, when people are like, “Yeah, I've made the
decision to do that.” And then you receive those letters inside. I’s pretty.
incredible.

People sent you a lot of books and stuff, assume, right?

oty theages 3
‘Eric King: When I was allowed books, yeah.

‘David Campbell: I got so many books. Within a month had to ask people
t0 stop sending them because I had too many. 1 was giving them away at
an alarming rate.

‘Eric King: That's one of the best feelings, when someone says, “Ob, man, 1
wish I had this book,” and you ask a friend, and they hook it up in three
days. “Here you go.” Because that person is probably not going to get a
single bit of kindness, and all of a sudden you get to pass that solidarity
on.Its a beautiful feeling.

‘David Campbell: I’s a wonderful thing. Actually, the Haitian dude I was
talking about carlier wanted a dictionary so he could work on his English
grammar, and he was like, “Yeah, we just don’t have any old dictionaries
lying around.” Ihad a giant French-English dictionary, but I needed it all
day, and it was not what he needed, and I just asked my defense
committee to order a dictionary from a used bookstore and send it to me.
10s just alittle gesture, you know. Yeah, man, it's pretty cool. Getting
letters, man... Sometimes it doesn’t even matter what the content s. It
could just be a postcard. Damn, it's awesome.

‘Eric King: To everyone sending out books and letters to prisoners, thank
you so much. Send a book today. My friend, Smiles, he needs books. He
needs adult coloring books. Randy Platt, ADX. He's finally allowed colored
pencils.

Alssa Azar: The last question s do you have any adviee for activists who
are cither currently facing incarceration or who are currently maybe
taking risks that could put them in that position?

‘Eric King: I said this before, and people don't always like this answer, but,
firstly, understand the consequence of what you're doing, that it can lead
to this. Ifit does lead to this, then you need to know that you better be

prepared for violence. If you're going to a penitentiary or a high medium,
do not think that you're above it all. Do not think that you're a pacifist or
wWhatever. Learn to fight. Learn to make knives. Learn defense. Learn how
to tackle people or do MMA. Be prepared so that you are not a vietim. We
are still within this horrible system, and I have seen people go and be like,
“Oh, T'm not a part of it,” and they leave without their teeth. Do not let

5 g thecages
yourself be a vietim. Obviously have support going in. Have a book st
Have people you trust. Have money ready if you can, if you are privileged
to.do that. But, please, for the love of god, do not enter into this jungle and
think that you're above it, because 1 did that for a little bit, and its stupid.
10’ stupid as shit. Do not let yourself be a victim,

David Campbell: That's great advice. I would say all that, and then to
round that out, maybe just try to keep as cool a head as possible while
you're facing charges, because it’s so hard to do that. That’s the pre-
advice. Learn, but you can do that at the same time that you prepare to go
away. If you're like, “I think I might have to go away,” all right, well, that is
terrifying. 1t was terrifying for me, but I was able to kind of pull that off to
where Iwas like, “All right, I'm going to do at least a year, maybe two,”
you know, towards the end of my plea deal situation, so T was like, “All
Tight, cool.” I was talking to people in my defense committee, and they got
adomain for a website. We have a spreadsheet setup that we can use to
organize visits, so that you don't have people double-booking, fighting for
spots.

Eric King: Doing that ahead of time, that's amazing.

David Campbell: t was insane. 1 had people put me in touch with a
therapist, a radical therapist. 1 would say, absolutely get a radical therapist
ora therapist who understands.

Eric King: 1 get free EMDR treatment. I recommend it

David Campbell: [ had people show up in so many ways. Teaching me
‘meditation techniques, I had a couple different people teach me ways to
ry to get into my own head and chill out even in very busy environments.
Thad people teach me self-defense. One guy who had done prison time
was like, “You don't want to do that in there. I’s not going to work out.
‘The guy’s gonna come back the next day, if you just kick him in the balls”
That was very helpful. Anything like that you can get that's practical is
actually a way of coping. For me it was a way of coping with anxiety. “I
have to do time.” That's absurd. We all deal with these things. You wake
up one day, and one of your parents has a cancer diagnosis, and you're
ke, “This means I'm going to spend a ot of time in hospitals, an
going to be really hard” But you find a way to do that, and you work it in
your schedule practically, mentally. There’s ways to create some distance

oty theages 37
for yourself. “All right, so this is what 1 need to do.” That was kind of the
approach that was helpful for me. T would also say that if you're going to
learn about what life is like in there, try to focus on the actual facility
you'll be going to, and, if you don’t know, then it’s probably going to do
more harm than good, because there’s just so much... A lot of bad shit
happens in jail and prison, but that stuff does tend to float to the top.

‘Eric King: If you're preparing for USP and you g0 to a low, you're going to.
look ridiculous if you go in there trying to be a tough guy.

‘David Campbell: I’s completely different. I was getting ready o go to
Rikers, which is reputed to be this horrible place, and, look, it sucks, but
Pm among sentenced men, city time guys, not detainees. It like, “Well,
we're all going home pretty soon...” People fight over dumb stuff,
disrespect, whatever, but they re not stabbing each other and pulling each
other's intestines out...[Laughter.]

‘Eric King: 1 just want o tell anyone watching that doesn't already know
me or Smiles, please write Randy Platt in ADX. He's got 14 more years
there. He's lready done five. He's my best friend. This is my best friend.
He saved my life multiple times. The cops tried to send him into my cell to
kill me, offering rewards to him, and instead he wrote my lawyers, telling.
them, “This is what the cops are doing to set Eric up, you guys need to
know this shit.” There’s a thousanc e that. So, please support
my homie, Randy Platt. It's on my Instagram @supportericking, but
please write my homie, S

‘David Campbell: That's great. 1 would actually like to mention some
political prisoners real quick too.

Jesse “Tall Can” Cannon started a five year sentence in California state.
He's an anti-fascist political prisoner.

‘Eric King: Great guy.

‘David Campbell: Alex Stokes, he's doing 20 years in New York State. He's
waiting on an appeal, but his sentence is completely ridiculous. Gage
Halupowski, he’s probably near the end of his six years in Oregon state.
‘You could find these guys on the Anarchist Black Cross website: abefne.
There's prisonersolidarity.com. International anti-fascist defense fund,

5 g thecages
stufflike that, if you're looking to get involved. uprisingsupport.org, as
well, for people that are doing time for stuff related to the George Floyd
Rebellion. If you don't know where to get started, and you want some
people to write a letter or a posteard to, because that is a really easy way
tobrighten somebody’s day.

Eric King: This movement cannot win and cannot exist if we don't support
those who go away for it

Alissa Azar: Amen.
David Campbell: Yeah, for sure.

Eric King: Libertie, great secing you.

Libertie Valance: Thanks, ya'l.

Eric King: Cage was relcased, by the way. Ijust got text about it
David Campbell: Oh, really? Sweet! Welcome home, Cage.

Libertie Valanee: This was an incredible conversation. It really blew me
away. 1know that folks were really appreciating everything ya'll were
sharing, We've got a wrap for tonight, but so much appreciation to all of
Vall. S0 glad that y'all are both out now. We go o get more people out!
Alissa, thank you for being a fantastic moderator.

Eric King: Thanks, Alissa, I really appreciate you, friend.

‘Alissa Azar: Thank you so much for having us, and it was great talking to
everybody.

Libertie Valance: Have a great night, yal,

g teages
People, Places, Events, & Organizations

‘Assata Shakur — 4 Black revolutionary and a member of the Black Liberation
‘Army (BLA) who escaped from prison and lives free a3 a maroon in Cuba. Assata
became involved with Civil Rights protests while in community college in New
York City in the mid-60’s. After graduating rom CCNY, she moved to Oakland,
California, where she joined the Black Panther Party (BPP), working with the
party to organize protests and community education programs. Ater returning.
to New York City, Assata led the BPP chapter in Harlem, coordinating the Free
Breakfastfor Childsen program, free clinics, and commaunity outreach, Assata
joined the BLA, an offshoot of the BPP whose members were inspired by Third
World liberation struggles, engaging in guerilla warfare against the US.
government for Black liberation. On May 2, 1973, Assats, along with Zayd Malik
Shakur and Sundiata Acoli were involved in a shootout with the police, during
which Zayd was killed and Assata was wounded. Ater Assata's capture, between
197 and 1977 she was indicted ten times, resulting in seven different criminal
rials. On November 2, 1979, Assata, alter ix years of imprisonment (where she
birthed her daughter, Kakuya Shakur) escaped the Clinton Correctional Facility
for Wormen in New Jers

visiting her drew concealed 45-caliber pistols and a stick of dynamite, seized

when three members of the Black Liberation Army

two correction officers us hostages, commandeered a van and (with the
assistance of members of the May 19 Communist Organization) made theis
escape. Despite one of the largest police and FB manhunts in history, Assata
made her way to Cuba, where she has continued to reside o this day. Assata is
the author of the books Assata: An Autobiography, Stil Black, Still Strong, with
Dhoruba bin Wahad and Mumia Abu-Jamal, and many articles and poerns.

Alfredo Bonanno — an Italian anarchis, recognized as s prominent theorist and
proponent of contemporary insurrectionary snarchism. Alfredo emerged from a
tendency within Italian anarchism that emphasized direct action, informal
affinity groups, and expropriation for financing anarchist activity. Alfredo was
imprisoned many times, including for his book Armed Joy, and was one of
hundreds of lalian anarchists arrested on the night of June 19,1997, when Italian
sccurity forces carried out raids on anarchist centres all over Ialy. He was.
accused of bei

i the ideologist of the group called ORAI (Insurrectionist
‘Anarchist Revolutionary Organization), which had carried out several self-
financing robberies, demonstration attacks, and a kidnapping, Of the 68
defendants n the trial, which was scen by the anarchist community s a set-up,
only 7 were found guilty. In 2003 Bonanno was sentenced again to 6 years in
prison. He was released due 10 his age in 2010 and passed away on December 6,
202 An extraordinarily influential anarchist theorist, some of his writings
include, The Anarchist Tension, And We Wil $till Be Ready To Stormn The
Heavens Another Time, Armed Joy, From Riot to Insurrection, and Worker's
Autonomy.

o g hecages
Los Macheteros — the Ejéreito Populas Boricua ("Boricua Popular/People’s
‘Army”) also known as Los Macheteros (“The Machete Wielders”
elandestine militant and insurgent orgaization bused in Puerto Rico which
struggles for the independence of Puerto Rico from the United States. During
thei first decade of existence, they had an average of two actions per year,
including the 1978 bombing of a small power station in San Juan, the 1979
retaliation attacks against the United States armed forces personnel, and the
1981 Muiz Air National Guard Base attack. Boricua Popular Army was led
primarily by former fugtive Filiberto Ojeda Rios who was assassinated by the
FBlin 2005, His killing was termed "an illegal killing” by the Government of
Puerto Rico's Comision de Derechos Civiles (Civil Rights Commission) aftera
seven-year investigation. The name Machetero was symbolically adopted from
the Puerto Ricans guerillas who assembled to defend Pucrto Rico from the
invading United States Army during the Spanish- American War in 1895.

‘Emma Goldman — a revolutionary anarchist and politieal philosopher in first
halfof the 20th century. Born in Lithuania (then within the Russian Empie), (o
an Orthodox Jewish family, Goldman immigrated to the United States in 1555
and became attracted to anarchism after the Haymarket massacre. Emma
became a writer and a renowned lecturer on anarchist philosophy and women's
rights, attracting crowds of thousands. Emma and snarchist writer Alexander
Berkman, her lover and lifelong friend, planned to assassinate industrialist and
financier Henry Clay Frick as an act of propaganda of the deed. Frick survived
the attempt on his life in 1892, and Alexander was sentenced to 22 years in
prison. Emma was imprisoned several times i the years that followed, for
“inciting to riot” and illegally distributing information about birth control.In
1906, Goldman founded the anarehist journal Mother Earth. In 1917, Emma and
Alexander were sentenced to two years in jail for conspiring to “induce persons
ot to register” for the newly instated draft After their elease from prison, they
were arrested —along with 245 others —in the so-called Palmer Raids during the.
First Red Secare and deported to Russia in December 1919, where they witnessed
the aftermath of the Russian Revolution. Emmaleft the Soviet Union after the
Kronstadt Rebelion, and in 1922 published a book sbout her expericnces, My
Disillusionment in Russia. While living in England, Canads, and France, she
wrote an sutobiography called Living My Life. Afte the outbreak of the Spanish
Civil War, Goldman traveled to Spain to support the anarchist revolution there.
She died in Toranto, Ontario, Canada, in 1940, aged 70.

Jesse “Tall Can® Cannon — an antifascist prisoner who is serving a five-
sentence for two different cases. The first centers around militant communit
defense in so-called San Dicgo, Kumeyasy land, against a force of well-known
fascists (proud boys and american guard) on January oth, 2021 The second case
he caught while he was fulflling a support role for the istorical Chicano Park
community a short while later. TC has deep tis to his local community and a
Long history of engaging in struggle forits defense alongside his friends and

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comrades. He i a ather, an artist, and an avid lover of the outdoors. He enjoys
reading books and zines on history, art, politics, and nature.

AlexStokes — On Junuary 6, 2021, right-wing agitators gathered outside the New
York State Capitol in support of the Stop the Steal rallyin Washington DC. A
handfl o counter protesters spoke out against them and a melee broke out
after a Proud Boy tased a Black man in the neck. Alex Stokes was watching from
the sidelines and ran to help others. Police did notintervene until the violence
had ended, arresting three Black activists. Alex was charged with several
felonies, The Proud Boys were not arrested at the scene. Alex's family and
fricnds maintain that he was railroaded by the system. He was a journalist under
court-ordered gag-order for over a year. His previous work and experience.
with dangerous hate groups were inadmissible for his defense, but the
prosecution picked apart his social media accounts and portrayed his sctions as
premeditated. He was found guilty on ll charges and sentenced to.20 years in
prison, despite the fact that no one died and neither of the vietims received lfe-
altering injurics,

‘Goge Halopowski — an antifascist politieal prisoner from Portland, OR who was
arrested while countering a ar-right demonstration in June 2019. In November
2019, Gage was convicted and sentenced to sx years in state prison. Gage
released in November 2021

‘Uprising Support — starting in May 2020 the U.S. was shaken by protests,
uprisings, and riots following the police murder of George Floyd. Almost
immediately the government moved in to repress those taking the streets
against the police and racial violence. More than 350 people were arrested on
federal charges while city and state level arrests topped 14,000 between May
26th and Nov ard. Some cities/regions already had established organizations and
crews to help with both jail support and long-term prisoner support during and
after the Uprising; in other places new groups formed as the need arose; yet
other places still have little o no infrastructure to support the massive number
of arrestees. The uprising was the continuation of a battl against the combined
powers of the state and white supremacy that has been raging for decades;
centuries. That fight does not end when the protests die down or the riots are
quelled. It overlaps with other moments of rupture and with the care that we
show for cach other in the aftermath of repression and the build up towards the
next moment. The struggle contines. And for that reason, we do not want those
captured by the state to be isolated through their imprisonment and left ot of
that continuing struggle. We want o fuciltate their connections with people,
movements, and communities on the outside; this website is one piece of that
effort. This site is run by a few people who have both interest in and experience.
with running support campaigns and doing anti-1

organizing. We are not ourselves an organization and we rely primarily on the
work and support o those on the ground in each of these places who already

epression education and

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have relationships with Uprising defendants and prisoners. We have done our
best to communicate with defendants and inform them that since ours is
strugge for total ollective liberation that we will notlst people who stand for
sexism, homophobis, racism, transphobis or other forms of domination. We also
will not list o support people who cooperate with the government against
others o better their own circumstances. For more information:

uprisingsupportorg

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Write to Political Prisoners
‘mentioned in this conversation

Jesse “Tall Can” Cannon® BX4822
rra Conservation Center
5150 O'Byrnes Ferry Road
Dorm 27, Upper Tier 7U
Jamestown, CA 95327
Address envelope to Jesse Cannon

AlexStokes® 2285028
Upstate Correctional Facility
PO Box 2001
Malone, NY 12053
Address envelope to Alexander Contompasis

Randy Platt 20764081
USP Florence ADMAX.
POBOX 8500
Florence, CO, 80501

‘nycabe.wordpress.com/write-a-letter/

S g hecages
Rattling the Cages

1) Political Prisoners, Mass Incarceration, & Abolition
Eric King, Herman Bell, David Gilbert, Susan Rosenberg

2). Continuing the Struggle Inside & Out

Eric King, Ashanti Alston, Ray Luc Levasseur

3) Antifascism Behind Bars
Eric King and David Campbell

4) Black August & Prisoner Support
Eric King, dequi kioni-sadiki, Harold Taylor

5) Eric King in Conversation with James Kilgore
Eric King, James Kilgore

6) Post-Prison Activism & Archiving Resistance
Eric King, Jake Conroy, Claude Marks

7) Until All Are Free
Eric King, Jason Hammond, Jeremy Hammond

8) Revolutionary Women Behind Bars

Eric King, Linda Evans, Laura Whitehorn, Nicole Kissane

9) Becoming Politicized in Prison
Eric King, Josh Davidson, Heetor Rodriguez, Farhan Ahmed

10) Rattling the Cages: How We Dit It & How You Can Too

Eric King, Sara Falconer, Josh Davidson

all conversations are available @FirestormCoop on youtube

oty theages 45
Support Political Prisoners

As yowve heard & read, it is vital that we support the political prisoners
of our liberation movements. Providing support builds bridges across and
through prison bars, giving those locked inside a connection to the
outside world. Your support matters.

Get involved. Write to a political prisoner—a simple letter provides a
needed eseape. Visit them in prison. Ask what a political prisoner needs
and do what you can to help them. Offer them support.

Visit the NYC Anarchist Black Cross website (nycabe.wordpress.com) and
learn more about those currently imprisoned for political reasons.

Buy a Certain Days: Freedom for Political Prisoners calendar
(certaindays.org).

Visit your local Books Through Bars group and send books to those.
incarcerated (booksthroughbarsnyc.org/resources).

Join your nearest Anarchist Black Cross group (abef.net)

Visit rattlingthecages.com to learn more.

s g e cages
ationg the cages
linktr.ee/rattlingthecages

EricKing and David Campbell, both contributors
toRattling the Cages: Oral Histories of North
American Political Prisoners, discuss their
experience behind bars, exploring the political
«and physical implications of opposing fascism
and white supremacy while living under

state control

This event was a fundraiser for the
International Anti-Fascist Defence Fund.

Donations can be made at
fundrazr.com/defendantifa

FRESTORM