To Know A Written Interview with Lesbian Political Prisoners: Linda Evans, Laura Whitehorn, & Susan Rosenberg Queers Unitedin Support of Poltical Prisoners I'm an activist,why haven't | heard of you before? LAURA: I think it’s because theres been a long time during which the *lefi” and progressive movements havent really tred to know who' in ison — including but not limited to political prisoners and POW'. orinstance, how many AIDS actvists know shout the any PWASin prison, and the horrible conditions they liv in? Aside from Mike at GCN (Gay Community News), how many writers and media folls in our movements try to reach into the prisons o support lesbian and gay ‘prisonicrs, whose lives are ofien made ety oughty thepigs. 1o geeral, this country tries to shut prisoners away and make people outside farget about us. T the case of political prisoners, multiply that times X for simple fact that our existence is a_ danger to the smooth, quiet runzing of the system: our existence shows that this great demokickracy is a lie. The goremment docsa vant jou to know o we are —that' why they 0y so. ard to label us “terrorists” and “criminals”, LINDA: Political prisoners have been purposely “disappeared” by the ws. ‘govermment, whose official position s that “there are o politcal prisoners mside the v This is the way that the government denis both that the ‘motivations for our actions were political and that the movements we come from are legitimate, popular movements for social change. The prison system isolates al prisonezs from their communities,but especially harsh isolation i institured against political prisoners: restricted visting lists, frequent wansfers o prsons he awrey Som our home. compmunings, mil censorship, ‘maximum security conditions”,long periods of fime in soltary confinement But our own political movement, too, has ignored the existence of political prisoner. 1 think ti ha gy b & s of e or P f‘o!irif:a.l prisoners/POW’s are Black and Puerto Rican comrades who ave b locked up for ove 2 decade. Unfornately e bas e e ‘widespread support among progressive white people for the Black Libera- tion siruggle o Puerto Rian ndependence o oy Nt Ao sovereig !ymn;u‘fglcs = and these are the movements that the Black/ Pcro Ricun/Nsive Amercan pobiclpraoncas BOW e sy Also, many political acivists have actually withheld support for politi- lprisoncr/POWs becuseof digreements with tactics i were employed, or with actions of which the political prisoners have been accused or convicted These dissgresments are tactical in nature, and shoulde't be allowed to obscure the fact that we all have been Sghting for justice and social change. This withdrawal of support leads t falsc divisions amongst us, and actually helps the state in its sicgy o ot political prisoners/POWs from our communities and political movements. SUSAN: The activists/radicals of the late 1980's and 1990's have to reclaim the history of resistance that emerged and continued hrough the 19705 a0 805 As long 8 the goveenement nd s et get 1o define who and whatis importint then the el hmml:;x;?me(d inours and others experiences wil get lost. People haven't heard of us (except as 2 vagu. mémory ofa. hesdine - uzflz) Decause there i vy scious e ment counter-insurgency micgy o bury che revoluonies who have been captured in prison. 1 have been in prison 6 years and over hatf of that time was spent in solitary confinement or small- group isolation 1000’ of miles away from my community and family Myer s similar to the 100/150 other political prisoners in the U.S. I the indovia uals from diffrent movement (. e Bick. Pusayy Rican, Native American and white movements who have seen the need for organized resistance ro oppression) are destroyed itis away to delegitimize the demands of the ‘movements Did you do t? Did the government misrepresent what you did? If s0, how? LAURA: Yes, 1 did it did (do) resist racism, sexism, imperialism with pery fibesof my queer being, and T believe we need 1o Sght for Justice The govemment} ersion” of what Liwe did i & complete e, thaogh. n that they call esstance a crime. I¢s sort of ke the way Jesse Helnt sl us sick” he's assick 2 you can get. On the mordlity meter he docsgt eren make the needie move. Same way the ULS. government, a gepocidel system, calls acts of revolutionary struggle “terronet violonce?, 1od dhes system of aw, ustice”. LINDA: Yes, I'm proud that T've been part o the strugele o build an frmed clandestine resistance movement thar can figh to support pasional liberaton struggles, and that wil fight for revolution in the LS. OF con the government mistepresented what we did first of al by cllng s “en- rorists 10 make peol thinlk we were 2 danger to the communics s i s purpose was to terrorize or kill people. Quite the contrary: al the ammeg csions of the last 20 yeas have becn planned to minimise any Fek of human life. This, of course, i i stark contrast to the actions of the rerorist ‘and mercenary armies like the contras and Savimmbt in Angola, which supports the Israli war of genocide aguinst the Palestiniuns oy the b e o apathes e supports daily police brurality in Black and Thied Word communtties hese ooy i Lo o7 aerinl bombing of MOVE in Philadelphia in 1983, which kiled 11 pesple and created a firestorm that left over 250 people homeless. SUSAN: have been a revolutionary fo much of my lfe. & evolutionary inthe sense that | believein the nced for profound social change that goss o the 10015 of the problem, Which I believ is systenaic eaty T have along vith thers tricd many 10 win liberation and attack the state . Firstas a peace activis in the ke 607, the 70% and then in joining the armed cland; that was developing i the 805. T s gl of revolurionary ant imperial- ist esistance. Of course the goverment has mistepresented me and all of us. The main form thac has taken i to call us terrorists, which s so that couldsit be further from the truth. Juse ke all opposition o the cold war of the 50's was labeled communist, the 80's equivalent is terrorist. Now theze ar all Kinds o tertorists sccording tthe U8, al of i buiehi. 1 don't mean to beg the question in the specifi. 1 beliove that no revolution- ary captured comrade says what they have or havent done within thei revolutionary work Audre Lorde says the master’ toos (violence) il SEmate e hasert hosse (he o b e et 10 this: LAURA: 1 don't think “violence s just one thing, so T don't think it's necessaxily “the master's tol". If revolutionaries were as vicious and cxu;!::lorhurui l;nd innocent human r;‘m as the ;d S. gevunmcnzfo is, then I think weld be doing wrong. But when oppres e fight for il rcrteding g Bl popk e them, Would you hve condemned Afriean saves n the (18 for [ theis slave masters,or for using violence in a struggle for freedom? To me, the issue is how do we fight effectively - and humancly — for liberation. As we build the strugele, we Bave to be very self-ritical, very self-conscious about how we struggle as well as what we struggle for. But | think we also need to fight to win — and I think that means engaging in a fight for porve: Fof the put S+ year, Lve witnessed close up he violence - siow, rutal, heartless of genocide aguinst African American women. To refusé to fight to change that (and I dorit believe we can fight for poveer completely “non-violently") would, I think, be to accep the violence of the state in the ‘name of rejecting the violence of revolutionary struggle. LINDA: I disagree with posing the question in the way she does (or how the question does). I dorit the issue is violence, bur rather politics and pover Arourd the world imperialis mainting el - kicps itselt in power - by military power and the threat of violence wherever people struggle for change. Liberation movements have the right to use every means available o defoat the system that is oppressing and Killing people. This means fighting back n Slf-defense, s i meinsan offosive struggle for peoples power and self-determination. But reducing i to & tactical question of “violeat means” doesnt recognize all the aspects of building a revolutionary movemen that aze crucial to actually mobilizing le, developing popular organizations, empowering oppressed groups i hepeoplel movesens e womeh 1ad indigns o deciop- inga revolutionary program that can realy meet people’ needs and that. people vl igh to make real A slogan that embodies this for me comes om the Chinese Revolusion: “Without mass struggle, there can bé o sevolution. Without armed struggle,there can be no vietory.” SUSAN: Labways took the quore from Audre Lorde to mean the opposite cfwhat you say. Funn, no* | sbware it s saying that to mean the masiers' tools being electoral/slow change. Well - thege you go! Why is it important o s. ort political as opposed to nn_ny-fiohtigal ‘prisoners? Shouldn't we. be concerned about il prisoners? LAURA:1 think we should be concerned about all prisoners, and T dort think ' ever been us political prisoners who have promoted any iresolv- 2ble contradiction between us and the rest ofthe prisonees in the U8, Bt ‘within that, I think there is a particular need for mizss)v: movements 0 defend poliical prisners, because ¥ par oF b B e e pcats e come o Iy are ightin raciom and hormephabi, ind here are peopl serving long sentences in prison for fighting those things, Tthink you advance the gos by- gupporingthe prisonces ko hink hae supportfor politcal prisoners hlps expose how epressive and unjust the e system i That can also be an avenue to supporting all prisoners, Support for political prisones is concrete act of resistance to the control e fovernment eegh over s oo s fights the isolation and silene- g of politcal prisoners and POWs. I asserts the legitimacy of redtuns. And in my experience it is major way that people cutside hesam co of the purpose and nature of the prison systenn ae 2 whole, LINDA: Yes -- it’s important for our movement 1o be concerned about all prisoners, and I think it especially important for the lesbian and gay movement t concer ourselves with combating attacks or esban) g ‘prisoners, and supporting all prisoners swith ATDS. Concerning ourssives ‘ith all prisones, and with the repressive/warchousing role of risons in Qur sociery s anothe way of Sighting racim, since the majorty of prsopers are from Third World communities. Prisoners get locked. away — out of sight, out of mind —- and the few prisonersrights that were won in prison struggles are being undermincd and cut back: Human rights are neidly non-existent in prison, and without community suppor and awareness, the government can continue to escalate i repressive polices,and condiions il juststeadily worsen. This is pecilly mue for prisonerswith AIDS, since the stigma attached to ATDS in sociery generally heightencd oy prison. Prisoners with AIDS die at an even s the outside because treatment is so sporadic, limited, and conditiony are 50 bad. So T would never say for people fo. support political fight for prisoners rights,and fo changes n condlitions that willbanehy prisonces.But its important t buld suppors speciits . political prisoners because we represent our movements, and its a ey o us o protect and defend the policical movements we come from gainet govern- ment repression. For the movement on the outside to embrace and sopoort polin:l? prisoners/POWs makes it possible for us to continue to. participate in and contribute to the movement we come from and it makes it impos- sible for the government to isolate and repress us in their efforts to destroy our political identites. SUSAN: Al prisoness e in desperateneed of support 0d s the popui- tion gers greates (in prison) and the repression get heavier the prisons il become majorconfrqaton wili e ey T e prisons are 0 become 2 social front of strugge then there must be a consciousness developed 1o fight the dehumanization and criminalization that prison intends. Poltical prisoners are important o support because we are in prison for explicitly social/political/p ive goals. Our lack of freedom does affect how free you at. If we can be violared, so can you. There is no contradiction between politcal and social prisoners. How does being a lesbian fit in with your work? LAURA: The same way it fits into my lfe — it i a basic, crucial part of my charactes, my outlook on things, my personality. Because Im 2 lesbian, the fight :fainsf ‘homophobia and sexist take on particular importance. But seally Lhink my lesbianism helps e care about the oppression of others by the imperialist system. So T ik my lecbianiom ‘makes me a better anti- impeialist - it makes me fight all the harder. Being 2 lesbian in prison s often very hard, but being “out” gives me a lot of surengeh. | have 0 ay that L am very proud when T her o read about she sgles queen are waging out there. LINDA: B:in? a lesbian has always been an important part of the reasons ‘why T'm a sevolutionary - even before 1 was self-conscions about how important this i to me! I don' separate “being 2 Iesbian” from any other part of my lfe, o from my politics Because I experience real oppression as & lesbian and a5 2 woman, 1 am personally committed from the sery core of my being — to winning Liberation for women, lesians, and a1l oppresecd cople. This makes me more willing to take risks and o Aght, becante I Fovt avison of s socesy Twant o e e ks and fo fight, generations, ‘where these forms of oppression don't exist.1 think being 4 lesbian has also helpe me recognize the importance of murual soliaity and support benween the struggles of oppressed people, despite the sexisma, heterocodem and racem thar oen i in the process of building thése lliances. Lireally believe that we have a common enemy — the imperialist system ~-and tha we have to support each other in all the forms ous struggies againstthatcnemy may ik, These llances nead 1 be bk 1 - respects the integrity of our various movements. SUSAN: Well Being a lsbian is part o the very fabric of my being — s0 the question is not really how it fits into my work rather how conscious do Tinake my lesbianism in living in prison or in the lfe of reistance | lead. It alternates depending on what the conditions are. Recently T have “come out”becanse at this point | have chose to be more consciously lesbian-. ideatified. T have done this because 1 believe that as gay people we need more revolutionary visions and strategiesif our movement s 1o become sgnificnt n Linking the overturning of sexual oppression with other forms prison.In recognition of Pete, Cowboy;Julu,Slmie, and all dhe oy cers 2 seems only right. Finally — Laura and Linda have been out sinee RCC6 began and i has been very important poltical and posioss) sience for them, and for us all. They have through their struggles sred cn enonment ofove and solidrity taat cnsbied me t subecguntly o How have you struggled with sexjsm and heterosexism in the Eroups A which 15 hove e heteroseism in LAURA: Mostly by confronting people when I think they are being sexst or heterosexist, and by fighting for womeris iberation and lesbizg and gay iberation to be included ot justas words but as real goals. The sades times for me have been those times when 1 was in groups where e didic do this 1 hink i's vy impertant for people to be abl 1 el or a vasiety of goals without setting up hierarchy or exclusive Lk ] wil continue to join groups whose main program is, for example, ani- sacist ox support for Palesting or Puerto Rico, because those things arejust a3 necessary for my liberation as women's and lesbian beration are Aund 1 ‘won't demand that my Liberation be made s i ofevery agenda Bue ront ever deny my identiy,my right to be zespected, ancl the urgeney and legiimacy of esban g2y Sad liberation, either. " SUSAN: 1 have become much more ofa einist over the last number of years ~ and by that I mean ideologically and poitically T believe we ha: o Sxamine the position of yomen, the structures of the sociery and how male dominance defines womer's position in al things. 1 dori? thinlk o the st fought against the subjugation of women and gy people com; bl my own ndependence o o i St ey against political and social forms of oppression. For exsmple. i} caragua new the women miliants of the FSLN are eevaluating thei practie of strug 'niz st sexism, and some of them are self-critical that. they subordinered She St o v ot needs of the so-called greater societal good. What it means now is that abortion 2nd the stragas £ (at this point) strong enough to effectively challenge this development. 1 beire Eato Siboriimae trie o] argay people and our s isa big mistake. What is the connection between the primarily white middle class gay rights movement and the struggles’of other ppressed people? How do we emvision & gay movemment that encompasses other struggles? LAURA: T believe tha any struggle of *primarily white middle class” people has the danger of being irrelevant to real social change unless it alles iself with the stxoggles of oppressed people. T country s great track ecord forbuying i sector (at hav pebiege, One thi happens, 59t only do things stay the same, they get worse. But even more then that, T feel that we cannot be full human beings unless we fight for all the oppressed. Otherwise, our struggle is just as individualit and racis as the dorsinant soiey Tn ot csoe S s i anyzhing worth fightin for T think che queer movement nceds o talk to other fnovemerts sac communities, in_order to work out common strategies and figure out how 1o support one another: I think we need to talk to groups in the national liberation struggles in order to figure out how to sef our agenda and strategy - like what demands can we raise in the fights about AIDS that can help other communities ring AIDS? s a struggle, ot ncesrc an easy process, but its crucial. Its also true that our movement has. adopted lessons from other movements -~ ofien without cven realizing of iecommizing it We'e espciallyincorporatedsategic concepts deve (at s high LINDA: Take me to a bar and I'll ket you know! SUSAN: 1 think that anything tha objecsifes women as sexul objects (versus sexual beings) is anti-woman. Even in an ll-womn canucls. Iesbian s subversive because women loving women it 2 crime. against the ,and agtinst the bourgeos ptsiarchal moray of sk Lo being subsersive docor't necesarly mean s abou lberation, If aothing clse Thave learned that iberation and the need for it begind in oneself bfecifeaton/ sl seresrypes/misogyny notonly destroyus n the ‘world, they corrode our own bearts. 1 am mot in in 2 society that promores those things. Although I dor believe that they il be ended ol e decide o en hem ~ they cannot be vertumed through th v of this state. ReoBiepFhisoy Absinen, oRe Po BoOX (24( Calmdvs o §3216